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Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

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Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#171

Post by brendoelfrendo »

MBCook wrote: post #136
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of my biggest issues with pretty much any ID verification legislation. If the Gov wants to enforce ID verification, it is incumbent on the Gov to bend over backwards to ensure that everyone impacted is given a free, secure ID. I refuse to accept any situation where someone is excluded from public participation because they can't afford or are otherwise unable to acquire an ID.

I agree. It’s a problem we already have. Drivers licenses are the de facto one today. You can also get an id card for those who can’t drive. But it’s fully incumbent on you to do it. You have to arrange transportation to get it, have the free time, necessary documents, live close enough, etc. That already causes problems for people, and is getting worse as voter ID laws get passed. “Everyone gets an ID once you’ve fi…

A quest indeed. In my state, it is not uncommon for there to be a months-long wait for appointments at the DMV. So, you can either wait the necessary months (how are you driving?), or try to slip in as a walk-in by showing up when they open and waiting the entire day for a chance to be seen. My local office will have 3 or 4 agents staffing the front and a line dozens long waiting outside the door before they even open. I get it, no one likes the DMV, bastion of inefficiency, blah blah... but for such a critical service, they're clearly not staffed for the demand that they're facing.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#172

Post by brendoelfrendo »

MBCook wrote: post #134
sapphicsnail wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have a mess than allow the federal government to have more power over me. I'm trans and I would have to out myself every time I needed to show ID if I had to give up my state driver's license. I like not having to worry about getting harassed whenever I want to go to a bar.

I hear you. I really do. I like the idea of a way of verifying who you are (in that you’re a real person) and age (so you could prove ability to do 18/21+ things). I see no reason why random companies/etc would need to know gender identity, name, etc. None of that is relevant to buying alcohol. If they need something, e.g. name on a mortgage, then maybe it’s optionally provided, under my control. I don’t know. I’m no…

I mean, honestly, there's a good question to be had: why do we even need gender on a modern ID? Assuming a reasonably up-to-date photo, there isn't even a whole lot of purpose in listing descriptive information about the person. And that's before we talk about other stuff that you could list instead or encode as data into a smart ID if you really want some descriptive data.

Unfortunately, I agree with you that while fixable in the abstract, we're not getting anywhere in the modern USA. Can you imagine what would happen if a politician suggested removing gender from IDs?

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#173

Post by berdario »

Telemakhos wrote: post #54
progbits wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's their goal. Make you scared about using things that are even legal but private/embarrassing.

It's a great first step toward making criticism of the government scary. Porn, hate speech, and other "legal but private/embarrassing" speech are the sharp end of the spear. When it's okay to restrict those, it becomes more easier to restrict political opposition.

Bland protest speech is already going to see you arrested under the Terrorism Act, we are way past a "first step".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/23/private-eye-ca...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-t...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/05/palestine-ac...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_vL-LpB0L5QrVYz0dgvpWEqN...

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/07/uk-palestine...

https://www.aljazeera.com/video/inside-story/2025/7/21/what-...

Note that, while the proscribed group spray painted war planes, they also disbanded (and regrouped under different names?) immediately after their appeal against proscription failed.

The only people who are getting arrested now, are those who are expressing support for the group (so: speech only, no action besides showing up)

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#174

Post by loa_in_ »

codedokode wrote: post #170
immibis wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they'll just send X-Is-Over18: Yes. Nobody actually cares about this issue enough to invest money in it - just enough to get certain stupid politicians off their backs. There will be third party browsers that always send the header, and they'll be banned from the app store upon discovery, and if they get famous enough their creators will be sent to jail, just like Tornado Cash.

This should work the other way: a website must send a header that the content in the response is safe for those under 18. If there is no header, the browser doesn't display the page. It is easy to implement and there is no need to change existing websites for this.

That would make all older web content become inaccessible

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#175

Post by herbst »

codedokode wrote: post #170
immibis wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they'll just send X-Is-Over18: Yes. Nobody actually cares about this issue enough to invest money in it - just enough to get certain stupid politicians off their backs. There will be third party browsers that always send the header, and they'll be banned from the app store upon discovery, and if they get famous enough their creators will be sent to jail, just like Tornado Cash.

This should work the other way: a website must send a header that the content in the response is safe for those under 18. If there is no header, the browser doesn't display the page. It is easy to implement and there is no need to change existing websites for this.

I like the header idea but it's the wrong way around. Let's make the header a law, and then consumers can decide themselves.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#176

Post by immibis »

IshKebab wrote: post #112
immibis wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? I expect that "take a weekend to France to bypass age verification" and "subscribe to NordVPN to bypass age verification" are both legal while "take a weekend to France to see the Eiffel tower" and "use NordVPN to increase your security" are both legal. Did you never wonder why VPN ads don't really list any actual use cases, yet they're wildly popular? If you know what you need it for, the ad doesn't have to tel…

VPN ads talk about bypassing streaming region locks all the time.

and they don't actually do that because streaming services know which addresses are VPN exits and block them or use your last location

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#177

Post by immibis »

Larrikin wrote: post #91
immibis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem: the millisecond this system is rolled out, personal data will be attached to it, not least because I'm just going to generate unlimited 18+ tokens and sell them for $10 apiece

You don't need to identify the user, just be able to show that two tokens are the same user and invalidate, log out both users, and make them generate a new token. You can sell your license to kids today, but it doesn't scale and is a terrible idea to give a kid an ID to a place you frequent.

So basically how it is today with phone verification. There are websites where you can pay $5 to borrow a phone number to verify a particular service. Except you only get one at a time.

Your idea also amounts to preventing ban evasion by linking a government ID to each account, which is on of the criticisms of linking accounts to government ID. And preventing multiple accounts even when not used to ban-evade..

And are you going to give the government N^2 queries every day?

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#178

Post by nxm »

immibis wrote: post #87
Telemakhos wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great first step toward making criticism of the government scary. Porn, hate speech, and other "legal but private/embarrassing" speech are the sharp end of the spear. When it's okay to restrict those, it becomes more easier to restrict political opposition.

Hate speech is only "legal but embarrassing" in the USA. Almost everywhere else it's illegal.

And therefore no where else does one actually have free speech

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#179

Post by Retr0id »

astrange wrote: post #167
Retr0id wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaken. DRM can work in a variety of ways but that is absolutely one of them. Apple doesn't attestation as part of their DRM (afaik) because it wouldn't be very useful. An iOS jailbreak requires the kind of exploits that would break attestation anyway, so it adds little value. Movie studios could require strong hardware attestation for playback, but in doing so they would limit the set of compatible devices…

One thing I've noticed is that when I post something here I know for a fact but that isn't common wisdom, nobody believes me. > You are mistaken. DRM can work in a variety of ways but that is absolutely one of them. Of course it can work that way. It's software, you can write whatever you want. It doesn't though. If you prefer, they have chosen to believe this is what the law says because it's a good argument if some…

> One thing I've noticed is that when I post something here I know for a fact but that isn't common wisdom, nobody believes me.

No, you're just wrong.

> It doesn't though

It does on Android. hardware-backed safetynet attestation can be required, as a mater of policy. Many things do not require it though, for aforementioned reasons.

See https://developer.android.com/google/play/integrity/verdicts...

"MEETS_DEVICE_INTEGRITY: The app is running on a genuine Play Protect certified Android-powered device. On Android 13 and higher, there is hardware-backed proof that the device bootloader is locked and the loaded Android OS is a certified device manufacturer image."

> you can get banned from the eShop if you jailbreak your Nintendo Switch

Nintendo bans for a bunch of things, but the act of jailbreaking alone is not one of them. They are known to ban you from online services if they detect you cheating in online multiplayer, or if their telemetry detects game piracy.

If they locked you out of playing legitimate physical games for the act of jailbreaking, that would probably be illegal in a lot of jurisdictions. It would also be strategically silly, because a jailbroken console could just pirate the games anyway.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#180

Post by Palmik »

mgaunard wrote: post #39

I've seen formerly free content platforms now require a payment of 2 GBP to prove your age. Ridiculous.

Based on my possibly biased data, most (90%) of UK users prefer to pay with debit card rather than credit card and that isn't good enough as a proof of adulthood.
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