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Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
171–180 of 219 posts
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#172One big issue I never understood is why do we need photorealism in games at all. They seem to benefit card manufacturers and graphic programmers, but other than that I feel it has nothing to do — and in fact may have negative impact on game quality.
We don't need photorealism in games, but it does help with immersion. Many people, like me, feel like they are inside the game world, rather than playing a game with a TV/monitor in front of them. Photorealism is essential for this feeling - at least for me . The most amazing gaming experience I've ever had was walking around the city at night in Cyberpunk 2077. For the first time in my life, I felt I was actually in…
> We don't need photorealism in games, but it does help with immersion.
This is a blanket statement I would disagree with.
> Many people, like me, feel like they are inside the game world, rather than playing a game with a TV/monitor in front of them
I can't disagree with a statement about personal preference.
So which is it?
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#173Am I taking crazy pills or are the blacks actually crushed in zelda but not crushed in zero dawn (opposite to what's stated).
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#174One big issue I never understood is why do we need photorealism in games at all. They seem to benefit card manufacturers and graphic programmers, but other than that I feel it has nothing to do — and in fact may have negative impact on game quality.
A large section of the gaming public sees photo-realistic games as serious, and prefers them for high-budget games. It's a rat race for devs though - its just incredibly expensive to create high quality models, textures, maps. I've been playing Cyberpunk 2077, and while the graphics are great, it's clear they could do more in the visual realm. It doesn't use current gen hardware to the maximum, in every way, because…
> In Cyberpunk, you still have to wait around in elevators, which seem like diegetic loading screens.
Cyberpunk has vanishingly few elevators. While it may be a loading hide in some spots, it's certainly not indicative of the game which otherwise has ~zero loading screens as you free roam the city including going in & out of highly detailed buildings and environments.
> I've been playing Cyberpunk 2077, and while the graphics are great, it's clear they could do more in the visual realm. It doesn't use current gen hardware to the maximum
I'm not sure how you can reach this conclusion to be honest. Cyberpunk 2077 continues to be the poster child of cutting edge effects - there's a reason Nvidia is constantly using it for every new rendering tech they come out with.
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our eyes absolutely blow out whites in the sun. Doubly so when looking at the sun or even reflections immediately after being in the dark for a while, and when looking at bright that is very near dark in your visual field. I’m not necessarily arguing games should imitate cameras, I really only think over-compressing the dynamic range is bad, and I don’t understand why the author is arguing for that.
> Our eyes absolutely blow out whites in the sun. Do you have a new technique to decode eye-brain perception in terms of how we perceive visual signals? Do you have a paper indicating how you make this claim for everyone?
Do you really need a paper? It’s well known that looking at the sun does damage to rods and cones, because it far exceeds their response range, long before perception gets involved.
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
This, in a nutshell, is why Nintendo is doing so well. Their hardware is underpowered, games look like cheap cartoons, but the effort spent into gameplay more than compensates.
There are tens (if not hundreds) of indie and B-games that offer the same experience as most current Nintendo titles. Nintendo is doing well more because of nostalgia - it's the parents buying those consoles for their kids because they have very fond memories with Nintendo from their own childhoods.
I don't suffer from that particular nostalgia, not having had a Nintendo console (C64/Amiga diehard here), but I bought Wii and Switch, and a couple of first-party games for each.
I considered, and passed on, the other consoles.
Nintendo is playing a different game than other console/game makers (excuse the pun), IMHO.
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're arguing that game engines should imitate photographic cameras, but they should imitate our eyes, which will never blow out whites outside in the sun.
Our eyes absolutely blow out whites in the sun. Doubly so when looking at the sun or even reflections immediately after being in the dark for a while, and when looking at bright that is very near dark in your visual field. I’m not necessarily arguing games should imitate cameras, I really only think over-compressing the dynamic range is bad, and I don’t understand why the author is arguing for that.
It's a cloudy day here and I'm within my rather dimly lit office. If I look out the window, it is no problem to see clouds in all their details, and I don't loose any details within the darker environment in the room. A camera will either blow out the entire sky outside the window to capture the details in the room - or make the room entirely black to capture the details of the sky through the window.
I mean, most people reading our comment thread here have their smart phone by their side and can instantly verify that eyes do not blow out whites or compress blacks like a camera. The dynamic range of our eyes is vastly superior to cameras. So aiming to imitate cameras is a mistake by game developers.
Of course, staring straight into the sun or a very bright light or reflection is a different matter.
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Our eyes absolutely blow out whites in the sun. Do you have a new technique to decode eye-brain perception in terms of how we perceive visual signals? Do you have a paper indicating how you make this claim for everyone?
Do you really need a paper? It’s well known that looking at the sun does damage to rods and cones, because it far exceeds their response range, long before perception gets involved.
Woah, the sun is bright? How do you know this is true for everyone? Do you have a peer reviewed RCT paper posted in a high impact journal confirming this?
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#179The article lacks some examples of what "done right" means. It points to some videogames that "do it terribly" (they look ok to me? not photorealistic, but not every videogame has to be like that?) but it does not show how "a correct" version of each image would be. Just says "it looks obviously bad". Sorry but I don't see it. I'm fine with videogames looking videogamey.
The article shows 5 images from games showing it done poorly, and 4 images from games showing it done well. A fifth image of it done well was added in an edit.
It doesn’t matter if the images are different. To the author it might be super obvious why some are good and others aren’t. To me they all look good.
Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
#180slightly related but a lot of newer games have weird colour filtering and post processing effects now that drive me nuts