Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip • Hacker News Board

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#171

Post by a012 » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 5:12 AM UTC

sandreas wrote: post #74

samhclark wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right generally, but I wanna call out the ODROID H4 models as an exception to a lot of what you said. They are mostly upgradable (SODIMM RAM, SATA ports, M.2 2280 slots), and it does support in-band ECC which kinda checks the ECC box. They've got a Mini-ITX adapter for $15 so it can fit into existing cases too. No IPMI and not very many NVME slots. So I think you're right that a good mATX board could b…

Well, if you would like to go mini (with ECC and 2.5G) you could take a look at this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006369887180.html Not totally upgradable, but at least pretty low cost and modern with an optional SATA + NVMe combination for Proxmox. Shovel in an enterprise SATA and a consumer 8TB WD SN850x and this should work pretty good. Even Optane is supported. IPMI could be replaced with NanoKVM or J…

That looks pretty slick with a standard hsf for the CPU, thanks for sharing

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#172

Post by sandreas » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 5:21 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #151

sandreas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I get your point about size, I'd not use RAID-5 for my personal homelab. I'd also say that 6x2TB drives are not the optimal solution for low power consumption. You're also missing out server quality BIOS, Design/Stability/x64 and remote management. However, not bad. While my Server is quite big compared to a "mini" device, it's silent. No CPU Fan only 120mm case fans spinning around 500rpm, maybe 900rpm on load…

> I'd not use RAID-5 for my personal homelab. What would you use instead? ZFS is better than raw RAID, but 1 parity per 5 data disks is a pretty good match for the reliability you can expect out of any one machine. Much more important than better parity is having backups. Maybe more important than having any parity, though if you have no parity please use JBOD and not RAID-0.

I'd almost always use RAID-1 or if I had > 4 disks, maybe RAID-6. RAID-5 seems very cost effective at first, but if you loose a drive the probability of losing another one in the restoring process is pretty high (I don't have the numbers, but I researched that years ago). The disk-replacement process produces very high load on the non defective disks and the more you have the riskier the process. Another aspect is that 5 drives draw way more power than 2 and you cannot (easily) upgrade the capacity, although ZFS offers a feature for RAID5-expansion.

Since RAID is not meant for backup, but for reliability, losing a drive while restoring will kill your storage pool and having to restore the whole data from a backup (e.g. from a cloud drive)is probably not what you want, since it takes time where the device is offline. If you rely on RAID5 without having a backup you're done.

So I have a RAID1, which is simple, reliable and easy to maintain. Replacing 2 drives with higher capacity ones and increasing the storage is easy.

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#173

Post by sandreas » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 5:27 AM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #116

sandreas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I get your point about size, I'd not use RAID-5 for my personal homelab. I'd also say that 6x2TB drives are not the optimal solution for low power consumption. You're also missing out server quality BIOS, Design/Stability/x64 and remote management. However, not bad. While my Server is quite big compared to a "mini" device, it's silent. No CPU Fan only 120mm case fans spinning around 500rpm, maybe 900rpm on load…

I'm interested in learning more about your setup. What sort of system did you put together for $350? Is it a normal ATX case? I really like the idea of running proxmox but I don't know how to get something cheap!

My current config:

  Fujitsu D3417-B12
  Intel Xeon 1225
  64GB ecc
  WD SN850x 2TB
  mATX case
  Pico PSU 150

For backup I use a 2TB enterprise HDD and ZFS send

For snapshotting i use zfs-auto-snapshot

So really nothing recommendable for buying today. You could go for this

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006369887180.html

Or an old Fujitsu Celsius W580 Workstation with a Bojiadafast ATX Power Supply Adapter, if you need harddisks.

Unfortunately there is no silver bullet these days. The old stuff is... well too old or no longer available and the new stuff is either to pricey, lacks features (ECC and 2.5G mainly) or to power hungry.

A year ago there were bargains for Gigabyte MC12-LE0 board available for If I HAD to buy one today, I'd probably go for a Ryzen Pro 5700 with a gaming board (like ASUS ROG Strix B550-F Gaming) with ECC RAM, which is supported on some boards.

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#174

Post by timc3 » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 5:29 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #151

sandreas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I get your point about size, I'd not use RAID-5 for my personal homelab. I'd also say that 6x2TB drives are not the optimal solution for low power consumption. You're also missing out server quality BIOS, Design/Stability/x64 and remote management. However, not bad. While my Server is quite big compared to a "mini" device, it's silent. No CPU Fan only 120mm case fans spinning around 500rpm, maybe 900rpm on load…

> I'd not use RAID-5 for my personal homelab. What would you use instead? ZFS is better than raw RAID, but 1 parity per 5 data disks is a pretty good match for the reliability you can expect out of any one machine. Much more important than better parity is having backups. Maybe more important than having any parity, though if you have no parity please use JBOD and not RAID-0.

I would run 2 or more parity disks always. I have had disks fail and rebuilding with only one parity drive is scary (have seen rebuilds go bad because a second drive failed whilst rebuilding).

But agree about backups.

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#175

Post by sandreas » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 5:54 AM UTC

UltraSane wrote: post #124

fnord77 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these little boxes are perfect for my home My use case is a backup server for my macs and cold storage for movies. 6x2Tb drives will give me a 9Tb raid-5 for $809 ($100 each for the drives, $209 for the nas). Very quiet so I can have it in my living room plugged into my TV. I have no room for a big noisy server.

Storing backups and movies on NVMe ssds is just a waste of money.

Absolutely. I don't store movies at all but if I would, I would add a USB-based solution that could be turned off via shelly plug / tasmota remotely.

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#176

Post by sandreas » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 6:01 AM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #125

cyanydeez wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a synology since 2015. Why, besides the drives themselves, would most home labs need to upgrade? I don't really understand the general public, or even most usages, requiring upgrade paths beyond get a new device. By the time the need to upgrade comes, the tech stack is likely faster and you're basically just talking about gutting the PC and doing everything over again, except maybe power supply.

> except maybe power supply. Modern Power MOSFETs are cheaper and more efficient. 10 Years ago 80Gold efficiency was a bit expensive and 80Bronze was common. Today, 80Gold is cheap and common and only 80Platinum reaches into the exotic level.

A 80Bronze 300W can still be more efficient than a 750W 80Platinum on mainly low loads. Additionally, some of the devices are way more efficient than they are certified for. A well known example is the Corsair RM550x (2021).

If your peak power draw is Another aspect: Buying a 120 bucks power supply that is 1.2% more efficient than a 60 bucks one is just a waste of money.

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#177

Post by Dylan16807 » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 6:14 AM UTC

timc3 wrote: post #174

Dylan16807 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd not use RAID-5 for my personal homelab. What would you use instead? ZFS is better than raw RAID, but 1 parity per 5 data disks is a pretty good match for the reliability you can expect out of any one machine. Much more important than better parity is having backups. Maybe more important than having any parity, though if you have no parity please use JBOD and not RAID-0.

I would run 2 or more parity disks always. I have had disks fail and rebuilding with only one parity drive is scary (have seen rebuilds go bad because a second drive failed whilst rebuilding). But agree about backups.

Were those arrays doing regular scrubs, so that they experience rebuild-equivalent load every month or two and it's not a sudden shock to them?

If your odds of disk failure in a rebuild are "only" 10x normal failure rate, and it takes a week, 5 disks will all survive that week 98% of the time. That's plenty for a NAS.

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#178

Post by espadrine » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 7:12 AM UTC

sandreas wrote: post #169

philjohn wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of "never let your drive spin down! They need to be running 24/7 or they'll die in no time at all!" voices in the various homelab communities sadly. Even the lower tier IronWolf drives from Seagate specify 600k load/unload cycles (not spin down, granted, but gives an idea of the longevity).

Is there any (semi-)scientific proof to that (serious question)? I did search a lot to this topic but found nothing...

Here is someone that had significant corruption until they stopped: https://www.xda-developers.com/why-not-to-spin-down-nas-hard...

There are many similar articles.

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#179

Post by mytailorisrich » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 7:19 AM UTC

layoric wrote: post #161

sandreas wrote: post #49

While it may be tempting to go "mini" and NVMe, for a normal use case I think this is hardly cost effective. You give up so much by using an all in mini device... No Upgrades, no ECC, harder cooling, less I/O. I have had a Proxmox Server with a used Fujitsu D3417 and 64gb ecc for roughly 5 years now, paid 350 bucks for the whole thing and upgraded the storage once from 1tb to 2tb. It draws 12-14W in normal day use an…

No ECC is the biggest trade off for me, but the C236 express chipset has very little choice for CPUs, they are all 4 core 8 thread. Ive got multiple x99 platform systems and for a long time they were the king of cost efficiency, but lately the ryzen laptop chips are becoming too good to pass up, even without ECC. Eg Ryzen 5825u minis

For a home NAS, ECC is as needed as it is on your laptop.

Re: Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip

#180

Post by murkt » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 8:12 AM UTC

guerby wrote: post #81

Related question: does anyone know of an usb-c powerbank that can be effectively used as UPS? That is to say is able to be charged while maintaining power to load (obviously with rate of charge greater by a few watts than load). Most models I find reuse the most powerful usb-c port as ... recharging port so unusable as DC UPS. Context: my home server is my old https://frame.work motherboard running proxmox VE with 64…

Powerbank is a wrong keyword here, what you want to look for is something like “USB-C power supply with battery”, “USB-C uninterruptible power supply”, etc.

Lots of results on Ali for a query “usb-c ups battery”.