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Australians to face age checks from search engines

ia.acs.org.au

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Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#171

Post by AnthonyMouse »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #153
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this goes back to the original argument: maybe if you can't avoid causing harm then you shouldn't be allowed to operate? By this principle the government can't operate the criminal justice system anymore because it has too many false positives and uncaptured negative externalities and then you don't have anything to use to tell Facebook to censor things. > Facebook and its ilk have massive profits, they can aff…

> By this principle the government can't operate the criminal justice system Obviously we make case by case decisions regarding such things. There are plenty of ways in which governments could act that populations in the west generally deem unacceptable. Private prisons in the US, for example, are quite controversial at present. It's worth noting that if the regulator actually enforces requirements then they become m…

> Obviously we make case by case decisions regarding such things.

You can make case by case decisions regarding individual aspects of the system, but no modern criminal justice system exists that has never put an innocent person behind bars, much less on trial. Fiddling with the details can get you better or worse but it can't get you something that satisfies the principle that you can't operate if you can't operate without ever doing any harm to anyone. Which implies that principle is unreasonable and isn't of any use in other contexts either.

> It's worth noting that if the regulator actually enforces requirements then they become merely a cost of doing business that all participants are subject to. Such a development in this case could well mean that all the large social platforms operating within the Australian market start charging users in that region on the order of $30 per year to maintain an account.

The premise there is that you could solve the problem for $30 per person annually, i.e. $2.50/month. I'm left asking the question again, how much human moderation do you expect to get for that?

Meanwhile, that's $30 per service. That's going to increase the network effect of any existing service because each additional recurring fee or requirement to submit payment data is a deterrent to using another one. And maybe the required fee would be more than that. Are you sure you want to entrench the incumbents as a permanent oligarchy?

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#172

Post by theshackleford »

SlowTao wrote: post #135
hilbert42 wrote: post #13

A resident of said country here. Another questionable measure by Government to protect our mollycoddled, insufficiently-resilient society. That said, a better approach would be to limit kids under certain age from owning smartphones with full internet access. Instead, they could have a phone without internet access—dumb phones—or ones with curated/limited access. Personally, I'm not too worried about what risqué stuf…

> Thinking back to my teenage years I'm almost certain I would have been tempted to waste too much time online when it would have been better for me to be doing homework or playing sport. That is true. I spent my time coding a 2D game engine on an 486, it eventually went nowhere, but it was still cool to do. But if I had the internet then, all that energy would have been put into pointless internet stuff.

I had the internet as a youth, and it is pretty much entirely responsible for me having been able to build a social network and social capabilities, build the career I have today and ultimately break out of poverty.

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#173

Post by ptek »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #57
postingawayonhn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article doesn't quite spell it out but I assume you won't be able to turn off safe search unless you log in with a verified 18+ account.

This is how Youtube works now. Age restricted videos can't be viewed without logging in.

Yeah. Can’t watch king of the streets or some video game trailers.

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#174

Post by ptek »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #110
SchemaLoad wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm split on it. 100% agree that kids being off social media is better for society. But I can't see how it could be enforced without privacy implications for adults.

Perhaps enforcement at the user end isn't what's needed. A perfect solution is likewise probably unnecessary. As but one possible example. Common infrastructure to handle whitelisting would probably go a long way here. Just being able to tag a phone, for example, as being possessed by a minor would enable all sorts of voluntary filtering with only minimal cooperation required. Many sites already have "are you 18 or o…

Are you 18 or older?

You don’t get that notification show up when you buy alcohol or cigarettes at a shop, would have been easier being a minor buying beer. The porn companies know what they are doing or they would create a adults robots.txt and published a RFC. Hope they won’t ask for age verification for the shroomery

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#175

Post by theshackleford »

Sevrene wrote: post #25

I’m an Australian who values privacy and civil liberties more than most I meet. While I yearn for the more authentic and sincere days of the internet I grew up on, I recognize very quickly by visiting x or facebook how much it isn’t that, and hasn’t been for a long time. I think this bill is a good thing and I support it.

>I think this bill is a good thing and I support it.

Uhuh.

>I’m an Australian who values privacy and civil liberties more than most I meet.

No you're not.

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#176

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

Sevrene wrote: post #25

I’m an Australian who values privacy and civil liberties more than most I meet. While I yearn for the more authentic and sincere days of the internet I grew up on, I recognize very quickly by visiting x or facebook how much it isn’t that, and hasn’t been for a long time. I think this bill is a good thing and I support it.

I’m an Australian who values privacy and civil liberties more than most I meet, and that's why I think this bill is horrible, is full of unintended consequences, and will be worked around by kids who care to do it.

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#177

Post by roenxi »

rendall wrote: post #129
strken wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Inconvenience" is downplaying the impact of not letting adults use incognito mode to search for things. Yes, right now search engines are only going to blur out images and turn on safe search, but the decision to show or hide information in safe search has alarming grey areas. Examples of things that might be hidden and which someone might want to access anonymously are services relating to sexual health, news stori…

Also porn. Let's be honest, all of this energy expenditure is about porn.

While anyone who wants to ban people looking at porn will be on side with this, the political oomph is probably more from authoritarians who are working towards a digital ID. Anyone who cares about the porn angle would be forced to admit this won't do very much. Anyone who wants to keep the wrong people out of politics would be quietly noting that this is a small but unquestionable win.

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#178

Post by [deleted] »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #89
SchemaLoad wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm split on it. 100% agree that kids being off social media is better for society. But I can't see how it could be enforced without privacy implications for adults.

Don’t buy them devices and lock down your computer and networks. I guess if a teenager is enterprising enough to get a job and save up and buy their own devices and pay for their own internet then more power to them.

[deleted]

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#179

Post by [deleted] »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #56
jackvalentine wrote: post #6

Australians are broadly supportive of these kind of actions - there is a view that foreign internet behemoths have failed to moderate for themselves and will therefore have moderation imposed on them however imperfect. Can’t say I blame them.

I'm split on it. 100% agree that kids being off social media is better for society. But I can't see how it could be enforced without privacy implications for adults.

[deleted]

Re: Australians to face age checks from search engines

#180

Post by AnthonyMouse »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #156
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the weirdest theory. The premise is that you admit the huge corporations with billions of dollars don't have the resources to pay moderators to contend with the professional-grade malicious content by profitable criminal syndicates, but some tiny forum is supposed to be able to get it perfect so they don't go to jail?

> but some tiny forum is supposed to be able to get it perfect so they don't go to jail? Typically you would exempt smaller services from such legislation. That's the route Texas took with HB 20.

So the companies that exceed the threshold couldn't operate there (e.g. PornHub has ceased operating in Texas) but then everyone just uses the smaller ones. Wouldn't it be simpler and less confusing to ban companies over a certain size unconditionally?
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