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DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

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171–180 of 186 posts

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#171
post #37

So Nvidia stock is going to crash hard when the Chinese inevitably produce their own competitive chip. Though I’m baffled by the fact they don’t just license and pump out billions of AMD chips. Nvidia is ahead, but not that far ahead. My consumer AMD card (7900 XTX) outperforms the 15x more expensive Nvidia server chip (L40S) that I was using.

"The hardware is the easiest part." - AMD probably

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#172
post #38

no way this delay's about gpus lol. deepseek prob has r2 cooked already. r1‑0528 already pumped expectations too high. if r2 lands flat ppl start doubting. or who knows maybe they just chillin watching how west labs burn gpu money, let eval metas shift. then drop r2 when oai/claude trust graph dips a bit

Distilling western SOTA models that now summarize their thought process is expensive in 2025.

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rumour was that DeepSeek used the outputs of the thinking steps in OpenAI's reasoning model (o1 at the time) to traing DeepSeek's Large Reasoning Model R1.

Maybe they also do that, but I work with a class of problems* that no other model has managed to crack, except for R1 and that is still the case today. Remember that DeepSeek is the offshoot of a hedge fund that was already using machine learning extensively, so they probably have troves of high quality datasets and source code repos to throw at it. Plus, they might have higher quality data for the Chinese side of th…

This is completely irrelevant without knowing if you are effectively prompting each model. Your workflow may just be suitable for a particular model and not others. And tuning a workflow for each model is tedious. I seriously doubt there is ANY class of problem DSR1 can solve that OAI's third tier model can't at this point (o4-mini).

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#174
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rumour was that DeepSeek used the outputs of the thinking steps in OpenAI's reasoning model (o1 at the time) to traing DeepSeek's Large Reasoning Model R1.

I don't think so. They came up with a new RL algorithm that's just better.

Better how? DeepSeek has never held the top spot in any aggregated benchmark. The Chinese bot armies are certainly better at convincing the internet they are trailing western models, despite the fact that in practical use this is not the case and at this rate, likely will never be. If AI progress is exponential, so is falling behind. What doesnt change however, is holding your ace card and dropping it when the time is right. China is competing with the public western models. Western SOTA labs are competing with their previous unreleased SOTA model. Publicly, China is ~3 months behind. But in reality, they are much further behind, and will never catch up.

Be mindful of what this means. A kid in his garage fine tuning a model can "catch up" to SOTA models for most use cases. For actual "frontier" work that requires SOTA levels of intelligence, there are only 3 companies in the race. None of them are from China or Europe.

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#175
post #17
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, my guess is OpenAI wised up after r1 and put safeguards in place for o3 that it didn't have for o1, hence the delay.

I think that's unlikely. DeepSeek-R1 0528 performs almost as well as o3 in AI quality benchmarks. So, either OpenAI didn't restrict access, DeepSeek wasn't using OpenAI's output, or using OpenAI's output doesn't have a material impact in DeepSeek's performance. https://artificialanalysis.ai/?models=gpt-4-1%2Co4-mini%2Co3...

The benchmarks are not reflective of real world use case. This is why OpenAI dominates B2B. As a business, its in your best interest to save money without sacrificing quality.

"Follow the money."

Businesses are pouring money into the OpenAI API. This is your biggest clue.

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd. I’d think it’d be all the companies in the US ignoring IP and copyright laws.

Examples please.

This source provides on-going case numbers for court litigation:

https://www.bakerlaw.com/services/artificial-intelligence-ai...

Seems like it would be a definitive list to me as it shows US AI companies getting sued for copyright infringement.

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples please.

This source provides on-going case numbers for court litigation: https://www.bakerlaw.com/services/artificial-intelligence-ai... Seems like it would be a definitive list to me as it shows US AI companies getting sued for copyright infringement.

So you're capable of knowing what the judges will decide on these cases? You've already decided that they are liable for what they're accused of?

And, isn't this the system working exactly how it is supposed to? Someone makes a claim and the courts decide, and then some kind of punishment will be doled out of the claim was found to be true?

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and Putin will definitely never invade Ukraine! Any suggestion to the contrary is just blatant American warmongering.

They are not the same situation. I won’t list all the reasons, but in broad strokes; Taiwan is a Pacific Ocean away from the warmongering USA (in American, btw, and a life long member of the war machine), Taiwan is not culturally inclined as Ukraine, Taiwan is not led by an alien group, China has time on their side, China has proximity on their side, China’s has dependency on its side, China has civilizational moment…

Whoosh

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#179
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrasing for quoting sources is extremely codified, it means the journalists have verified who the sources are (either insider or people with access with insider information).

How does this matter? If the journalists aren’t fully trusted in the first place… trusting them to strictly adhere to even the best codified rules seems even less likely.

Sure, if you don't trust anything what's the point. There's a lot of information that relies on anonymous sources and we usually use third party to vet them (otherwise how would they stay anonymous). Without this system we'd be missing out on a lot of things (if only named sources are used, a lot of things would never come out).

(A lot of things break down in society without trust, maybe that's already how the US is? Where I live it is thankfully still somewhat ok)

Re: DeepSeek R2 launch stalled as CEO balks at progress

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This source provides on-going case numbers for court litigation: https://www.bakerlaw.com/services/artificial-intelligence-ai... Seems like it would be a definitive list to me as it shows US AI companies getting sued for copyright infringement.

So you're capable of knowing what the judges will decide on these cases? You've already decided that they are liable for what they're accused of? And, isn't this the system working exactly how it is supposed to? Someone makes a claim and the courts decide, and then some kind of punishment will be doled out of the claim was found to be true?

You're changing the the topic of conversation, you asked for cases and now you want judgements as well.
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