Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout • Hacker News Board

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#171

Post by nfriedly » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 5:49 PM UTC

eagerpace wrote: post #136

I would love to have just enough solar to flatten my peak usage on the hottest days of the summer. They naturally coincide with tons of sun. I don't need a huge system to be all solar all the time or even care about credits from the power company. I just don't want a $300 bill in the summer and a $50 bill in the winter. Has anyone designed a good solution for this?

I know this isn't what you're asking about, but my electric company has a budget billing program where they average out your usage and charge you the same amount each month.

I use it mainly so that I can set it up and with my bank's bill pay system and then forget about it for a year. But it's also nice for avoiding those huge bills in the summer.

It might be worth looking into.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#172

Post by miningape » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:03 PM UTC

telllikeitisguy wrote: post #157

miningape wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain how an ethno-nationalist government implemented socialism? > I take it you don't consider the country to have veen ruined under apartheid Wether or not I consider the country to have been ruined under apartheid is irrelevant to the fact that the ANC is dragging it back to the stone age. The ANC was handed a functioning economy, solid infrastructure, and hope for a better future - there are now rolling…

Your responses are filled with non-specific references to online memes that suggest that you don't actually understand the problem in any deep sense (i.e you just have a gripe). I'm not going to defend ANCs policy decisions, but you can just point to specific decisions they made and the resulting outcome. You can't just handwave and repeat socialism/capitalism/Trotskyites like some mantra and expect everyone to take…

Not sure exactly which part of my response repeated socialism/capitalism/Trotskyites? And I gave 4 specific outcomes which are easily tied to ANC policy decisions given they've ruled the country for the last 30 years (blackouts, unemployment, birthrate > GDP growth, number of race based laws).

I'll grant you "dragging us back to the stone age" is an obvious meme.

Did you even read my comment?

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#173

Post by Scoundreller » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:04 PM UTC

whall6 wrote: post #154

brk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a ton of DIY solar info online, but it is very much regionally dependent. Both for permits and system design. Here in Florida, I can get high output from an average panel, but there are a lot of permit issues (and rightly so, a poorly installed panel can become a severe hazard in a hurricane). Where I lived in Michigan, there weren't many permitting or zoning issues, but I'd need 3-4x the number of panels to…

Michigan unfortunately represents a mismatch of when you need power vs when power is generated. Arizona, Texas, New Mexico are sweet spots. High power demand in the summer (A/C), relatively high proportion of sunny days.

Michigan is just like the south: highest electricity consumption is during summer.

This may change with increased use of heat pumps for heating, but it’s still a while out before seasonal electricity consumption patterns invert.

+/- on what effect electric cars will have: people drive more in summer but efficiency goes down in winter.

Arizona, Florida, etc are not really in a sweet spot we all think it is because PV efficiency/output goes marginally down when it’s really hot (ie: when A/C demand peaks). Unless you install the panels at high altitude.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#174

Post by turtlebits » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:20 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #166

turtlebits wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your jurisdiction, but roof mounted solar installs generally don't need building permits. Electrical permits on the other hand are almost always required. If you actually want to offset cost, don't buy a portable battery pack. Get an AIO solar inverter and a server rack battery. They're generally plug and play - wire the panels to it, connect the battery. If you want to run your home loads, the cheapest/si…

"If you want to run your home loads, the cheapest/simplest way (without going grid-tie) is to have an electrician add a critical loads panel supplied by your inverter output ..." No, that's actually not the simplest. Far simpler is to install a solar breaker in your main panel and a physical lockout[1] between utility power and the new solar breaker. There is no ATX, there are no smarts, the power goes out and you fl…

Changing your usage pattern isn't simpler.

When I mean simplest, I meant a solution that doesn't rely on doing anything. If/when Solar isn't enough or your batteries deplete, it just falls back to grid. Power outage? Your critical items automatically are backed by solar/battery.

Having to think about your what high draw appliances are running and using additional power adds mental load (ie complexity) and is an immediate no for most people.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#175

Post by turtlebits » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:23 PM UTC

tiahura wrote: post #163

turtlebits wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your jurisdiction, but roof mounted solar installs generally don't need building permits. Electrical permits on the other hand are almost always required. If you actually want to offset cost, don't buy a portable battery pack. Get an AIO solar inverter and a server rack battery. They're generally plug and play - wire the panels to it, connect the battery. If you want to run your home loads, the cheapest/si…

cheapest/simplest way (without going grid-tie) is to have an electrician add a critical loads panel supplied Cheaper way is have electrician wire a manual transfer switch at the existing panel. When you loose power, turn off non-essential breakers and then flip transfer switch.

You lose all benefits of solar/battery except for during a power outage and you have to flip all your breakers? (you also won't immediately know when the power is back).

Might as well save money and not install anything- use an extension cord for those rare times.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#176

Post by miningape » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:26 PM UTC

overfeed wrote: post #162

miningape wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain how an ethno-nationalist government implemented socialism? > I take it you don't consider the country to have veen ruined under apartheid Wether or not I consider the country to have been ruined under apartheid is irrelevant to the fact that the ANC is dragging it back to the stone age. The ANC was handed a functioning economy, solid infrastructure, and hope for a better future - there are now rolling…

> Care to explain how an ethno-nationalist government implemented socialism? By using the state treasury to provide disproportionate infrastructure and services to the ruling ethic minority, while leaving the bantustans - with no say in national politics or budget - to largely fend for themselves. This incidentally has similarities to the US/Puerto Rico dynamic. All the things you complain about can be explained by r…

> State capacity has collapsed across many government functions that are essential for a functioning economy. Critical network industries, including electricity, transport infrastructure and services, security, and water and sanitation have experienced major deteriorations over the last 15 years [1]

> While the racial composition of wealth at the top has changed, wealth concentration in South Africa has not and remains very high. [1]

> while the standard of living has increased for a minority of formerly disadvantaged South Africans and a small black middle class has emerged, there are still huge disparities in both material and subjective well-being [2]

> In 2010, the majority of citizens still hoped for basic necessities, income and employment, to enhance their quality of life. [2]

So no, there is no mean reversion caused by a broader sharing of (the same set of) resources - in fact the policies leading to worsening infrastructure and economic disproportionally negatively impact the poor, black population [3]

The examples I've given (blackouts, unemployment, etc.) are governance and capacity failures above and beyond any "regression to the mean" effect.

[1] https://conversableeconomist.com/2023/11/20/south-africas-ec... [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-012-0120-y [3] https://qz.com/africa/1435910/blackouts-in-africa-affect-the...

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#177

Post by dylan604 » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:36 PM UTC

WillAdams wrote: post #77

Does anyone have a good link/step-by-step for doing some sort of home solar system where: - it's sufficiently small-scale that no building permit is required - it looks nice enough that neighbors won't complain - the wiring is essentially plug-and-play The best approach I've been able to come up with is to purchase a medium size battery pack such as is used for glamping (glamour camping), plug it into the wall and co…

How is "using poured footings with short posts" not a permanent structure? Are you pouring the footings into buckets and not into the ground?

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#178

Post by dylan604 » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:44 PM UTC

chithanh wrote: post #34

chilldsgn wrote: post #27

I don't know much about electrical grids, but I'm wondering if something like this concept could help South Africa with its endlessly struggling electrical grid problems. My city constantly has power outages and the majority of people cannot afford installing solar into their homes.

It is not necessary for the majority to install solar. Pakistan had similar problems with rolling blackouts, and mass import of photovoltaic equipment and batteries from China has reduced the load on the grid so that outages no longer occur frequently. In fact the demand has shrunk so much that it jeopardizes financing of coal power companies. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43620309

> In fact the demand has shrunk so much that it jeopardizes financing of coal power companies.

That is something that I think would be the impetus needed to motivate reduction in coal power plants. If they become unprofitable to operate, then will the market finally decide to stop using them? Sadly, I could see the current US administration deciding to offer subsidies to keep coal.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#179

Post by Symbiote » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:46 PM UTC

thmsths wrote: post #112

rtkwe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wild. I wonder how they deal with the back feeding issue. Is there something about the home wiring in those countries that prevents it? (or do they just not care and line workers know to check if a line is truly dead?)

I feel the real danger of back feeding is not that american line workers can't be bothered to check if the line is truly dead before starting to work. It's that the line could be reenergized at any time.

Lineworkers will ground/earth the line with a very good connection (e.g. metal rod into the ground) before working on it, as far as I know.

(At least, this is what electricians working with 33kV in industry in Europe do, e.g. if doing maintenance on a cable to a datacentre.)

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#180

Post by rtkwe » Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 6:46 PM UTC

tgtweak wrote: post #169

I keep seeing these "grid synchronizing" inverters that don't require transfer switches and can generate to offset the energy pulled from the grid - in the event of a full grid outage, you can always manually hit the disconnect and run the home - provided the load doesn't surpass the generation capacity (or storage capacity if running with batteries). It seems like this hasn't really made it's way into North America,…

Grid synchronizing is not the same as being able to operate in island mode. The only reason you can run those inverters without an automatic transfer switch is because they don't function when there's no grid to follow so they shut off when power goes out meaning they don't backfeed the grid outside the home.

A lot of inverters are just grid following and you need some other source creating the 60-hz signal for the solar inverters to follow. Generally this is either a battery or generator because solar has a really hard fall off in the power provided the instant you try to draw too much so instantaneous spike loads like motors starting (compressors/fans/etc) will often collapse off grid solar only installs.