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Fun with uv and PEP 723

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Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#171

Post by rednafi »

4dregress wrote: post #169
rednafi wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this is why people need to get out of this “Python dev” or “JS dev” mindset and try other languages to see why those coming to Python complain so much about dependency management. People complain because the experience is less confusing in many other languages. Think Go, Rust, or even JS. All the tooling chaos and virtual environment jujitsu are real deterrents for newcomers. And it’s not just beginners compl…

My view is I’m an engineer first and foremost and I use the tools which are best for the task at hand. That also means what’s best for the business in terms of others working on the project, this has meant python with some sort of framework. People have suggested using other languages that might be faster but the business always choices what’s best for everyone to work with.

Sure, it depends on the type and maturity of the business, as well as the availability of local talent. I've worked at three companies that started out with Python and Django, then transitioned to other technologies as the business scaled. In those environments, there were two kinds of developers: those who quickly adapted and picked up new languages, and those who wanted to remain "Python devs." The latter group didn’t have a great time moving forward.

What I don't like about the "Python + Framework + Postgres" argument is that it often lacks context. This is a formidable combination for starting a business and finding PMF. But unless you've seen Python and Postgres completely break under 100k RPS and petabyte-scale data, it's hard to understand the limitations just from words. Python is fantastic, but it has its limits and there are cases where it absolutely doesn't work. This “single language everywhere” mindset is how we ended up with JavaScript on the backend and desktop.

Anyone can write Python, and with LLMs, there's not much of a moat around knowing a single language. There's also no reason not to familiarize yourself with others, since it broadens your perspective. Of course, some businesses scale quite well with Python or JavaScript. But my point isn't to abandon Python. It's to gain experience in other languages so that when people criticize Python’s build tools, you can genuinely empathize with those concerns. Otherwise, comments like “Python tooling is fine” from people who have mostly worked with only Python are hard to take seriously.

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#172

Post by caspar »

traverseda wrote: post #45
ACAVJW4H wrote: post #12

finally feels like Python scripts can Just Work™ without a virtualenv scavenger hunt. Now if only someone could do the same for shell scripts. Packaging, dependency management, and reproducibility in shell land are still stuck in the Stone Ages. Right now it’s still curl | bash and hope for the best, or a README with 12 manual steps and three missing dependencies. Sure, there’s Nix... if you’ve already transcended ti…

I don't think nix is that hard for this particular use case. Installing nix on other distros is pretty easy, and once it's installed you just do something like this #! /usr/bin/env nix-shell #! nix-shell -i bash -p imagemagick cowsay # scale image by 50% convert "$1" -scale 50% "$1.s50.jpg" && cowsay "done $1.q50.jpg" Sure all of nixos and packaging for nix is a challenge, but just using it for a shell script is not…

Last time I checked,[0] this works great - as long as you don't particularly care which specific versions of imagemagick or cowsay you want.

If you do care, then welcome to learning about niv, flakes, etc.

[0]: admittedly 3 years ago or so.

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#173

Post by x187463 »

bboygravity wrote: post #136
4dregress wrote: post #128

I’ve been a python dev for nearly a decade and never once thought dep management was a problem. If I’ve ever had to run a “script” in any type of deployed ENV it’s always been done in that ENVs python shell . So I still don’t see what the fuss is about? I work on a massive python code base and the only benefit I’ve seen from moving to UV is it has sped up dep installation which has had positive impact on local and CI…

How did you tell other people/noobs to run your python code (or how did you run it yourself after 5+ years of not touching older projects)?

run script

"missing x..."

pip install x

run script

"missing y..."

pip install y

> y not found

google y to find package name

pip install ypackage

> conflict with other package

realize I forgot a venv and have contaminated my system python

check pip help output to remember how to uninstall a package

clean up system python

create venv at cwd

start over

...

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#174

Post by db48x »

ACAVJW4H wrote: post #12

finally feels like Python scripts can Just Work™ without a virtualenv scavenger hunt. Now if only someone could do the same for shell scripts. Packaging, dependency management, and reproducibility in shell land are still stuck in the Stone Ages. Right now it’s still curl | bash and hope for the best, or a README with 12 manual steps and three missing dependencies. Sure, there’s Nix... if you’ve already transcended ti…

Guix is easier to grok than Nix, if anyone is looking to save themselves some effort.

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#175

Post by winterqt »

TZVdosOWs3kZHus wrote: post #143
jkingsman wrote: post #2

uv has been fantastic to use for little side projects. Combining uv run with `uv tool run` AKA `uvx` means one can fetch, install within a VM, and execute Python scripts from Github super easily. No git clone, no venv creation + entry + pip install. And uv is fast — I mean REALLY fast. Fast to the point of suspecting something went wrong and silently errored, when it fact it did just what I wanted but 10x faster than…

No more dependency problems with mkdocs I ran into before every other month: uvx --with mkdocs-material --with mkdocs-material-extensions --with mkdocs-nav-weight mkdocs serve -a localhost:1337 Funnily enough it also feels like it is starting faster.

Is there a reason you didn’t explicitly pull in mkdocs as a dependency in that invocation? I guess uv will expose it/let you run it anyways due to the fact that it’s required by everything else you did specify.

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#176

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

I have a lot of opinions about this.

Firstly, I have been a HN viewer for so many time and this is the one thing about pep python scripts THAT always get to the top of leaderboard of hackernews by each person discovering it themselves.

I don't mean to discredit the author. His work was simple and clear to understand. I am just sharing this thesis that I have that if someone wants karma on Hackernews for whatever reason, this might be the best topic. (Please don't pitchfork me since I don't mean offense to the author)

Also, can anybody please explain to me on how to create that pep metadata in uv from just a python script and without anything else, like some command which can take a python script and give pep and add that in the script, I am pretty sure that uv has a feature flag but I feel that the author might've missed out on this feature because I don't know when coding one off scripts in python using AI (gemini) it had some options with pep so I always had to paste uv's documentation I don't know, so please if anybody knows a way to create pep easier using the cli, then please tell me! Thanks in advance!!

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#177

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

traverseda wrote: post #45
ACAVJW4H wrote: post #12

finally feels like Python scripts can Just Work™ without a virtualenv scavenger hunt. Now if only someone could do the same for shell scripts. Packaging, dependency management, and reproducibility in shell land are still stuck in the Stone Ages. Right now it’s still curl | bash and hope for the best, or a README with 12 manual steps and three missing dependencies. Sure, there’s Nix... if you’ve already transcended ti…

I don't think nix is that hard for this particular use case. Installing nix on other distros is pretty easy, and once it's installed you just do something like this #! /usr/bin/env nix-shell #! nix-shell -i bash -p imagemagick cowsay # scale image by 50% convert "$1" -scale 50% "$1.s50.jpg" && cowsay "done $1.q50.jpg" Sure all of nixos and packaging for nix is a challenge, but just using it for a shell script is not…

I will say this with a whole heart. My arch linux broke and I wanted to try out nix.

The most shocking part about nix is the nix-shell (I know I can use it in other distros but hear me out once), its literally so cool to install projects for one off.

Want to record a desktop? Its one of those tasks that for me I do just quite infrequently and I don't like how in arch, I had to update my system with obs as a dependency always or I had to uninstall it. Ephemerality was a concept that I was looking for before nix since I always like to try out new software/keep my home system kind of minimalist-ish Cool. nix-shell -p obs-studio & obs and you got this.

honestly, I like a lot of things about nix tbh. I still haven't gone too much into the flake sides of things and just use it imperatively sadly but I found out that nix builds are sandboxed so I found a unique idea of using it as a sandbox to run code on reddit and I think I am going to do something cool with it. (building something like codapi , codapi's creator is kinda cool if you are reading this mate, I'd love talking to ya)

And I personally almost feel as if some software could truly be made plug n play (like imagine hetzner having nix os machines (currently I have heard that its support is finnicky) but then somehow a way to get hetzner nix os machines and then I almost feel as if we can get something really really close to digital ocean droplets/ plug n play without any isolation that docker provides because I guess docker has its own usecases but I almost feel as if managing docker stuff is kinda harder than nix stuff but feel free to correct me as I am just saying what I am feelin using nix.

I also wish if something like functional lua (does fxn lua exist??) -> nix transpiler because I'd like to write lua instead of nix to manage my system but I guess nix is fine too!

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#178

Post by altbdoor »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #176

I have a lot of opinions about this. Firstly, I have been a HN viewer for so many time and this is the one thing about pep python scripts THAT always get to the top of leaderboard of hackernews by each person discovering it themselves. I don't mean to discredit the author. His work was simple and clear to understand. I am just sharing this thesis that I have that if someone wants karma on Hackernews for whatever reas…

One can use uv to add into the dependencies list

    $ touch foo.py

    $ uv add --script foo.py requests
    Updated `foo.py`

    $ cat foo.py
    # /// script
    # requires-python = ">=3.13"
    # dependencies = [
    #     "requests",
    # ]
    # ///

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#179

Post by Hetzner_OL »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #177
traverseda wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think nix is that hard for this particular use case. Installing nix on other distros is pretty easy, and once it's installed you just do something like this #! /usr/bin/env nix-shell #! nix-shell -i bash -p imagemagick cowsay # scale image by 50% convert "$1" -scale 50% "$1.s50.jpg" && cowsay "done $1.q50.jpg" Sure all of nixos and packaging for nix is a challenge, but just using it for a shell script is not…

I will say this with a whole heart. My arch linux broke and I wanted to try out nix. The most shocking part about nix is the nix-shell (I know I can use it in other distros but hear me out once), its literally so cool to install projects for one off. Want to record a desktop? Its one of those tasks that for me I do just quite infrequently and I don't like how in arch, I had to update my system with obs as a dependenc…

Hi there, Since you mentioned Hetzner, I thought I would respond here. While we do not have NixOS as one of our standard images for our cloud products, it is part of our ISO library. Customers can install it manually. To do this, create a cloud server, click on it, and then on the "ISO" in the menu, and then look for it listed alphabetically. --Katie

Re: Fun with uv and PEP 723

#180

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

Hetzner_OL wrote: post #179
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say this with a whole heart. My arch linux broke and I wanted to try out nix. The most shocking part about nix is the nix-shell (I know I can use it in other distros but hear me out once), its literally so cool to install projects for one off. Want to record a desktop? Its one of those tasks that for me I do just quite infrequently and I don't like how in arch, I had to update my system with obs as a dependenc…

Hi there, Since you mentioned Hetzner, I thought I would respond here. While we do not have NixOS as one of our standard images for our cloud products, it is part of our ISO library. Customers can install it manually. To do this, create a cloud server, click on it, and then on the "ISO" in the menu, and then look for it listed alphabetically. --Katie

Hey hetzner. I am just a 16 year old boy (technically I am turning 17 on 2nd july haha but I want nothing from ya haha) who has heard great things about your service while being affordable but never have tried them because I guess I just don't have a credit card/I guess I am a really frugal person at this moment haha. I was just reading one of your own documents if I feel correct and it said that the support isn't the best(but I guess I was wrong)

I guess I will try out nix on hetzner for sure one day. This is really cool!!! Thanks! I didn't expect you to respond. This is really really cool. You made my day to whoever responded with this. THANKS A LOT KATIE. LOTS OF LOVE TO HETZNER. MAY YOU BE THE WAY YOU ARE, SINCE Y'ALL ARE PERFECT.

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