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U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

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Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#171

Post by winrid »

gr_norm wrote: post #49
danparsonson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but their starting point was different again - they already had the population, and were able to piggy back on technological progress from other countries by borrowing or stealing it. The other thing they have is an authoritarian government; a country can achieve a lot in a short time when it can freely sideline the concerns and needs of its citizens.

I'm not a China defender, but sidelining the concerns and needs of its citizens isn't why China is able to do things like high speed rail or build high density infrastructure in general. Lots there view having their property taken by the government and relocated as a good thing, because it almost always happens way above market rates. There are exceptions, of course, but my impression is that it is not the norm. Feel…

In my personal experience with in-laws in China you're correct (got fully compensated + given a nicer house). Another family, when they were laid off from their government jobs, were given the option of cash or office space and storage for like 30yrs to run their own business...

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#172

Post by danparsonson »

gr_norm wrote: post #49
danparsonson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but their starting point was different again - they already had the population, and were able to piggy back on technological progress from other countries by borrowing or stealing it. The other thing they have is an authoritarian government; a country can achieve a lot in a short time when it can freely sideline the concerns and needs of its citizens.

I'm not a China defender, but sidelining the concerns and needs of its citizens isn't why China is able to do things like high speed rail or build high density infrastructure in general. Lots there view having their property taken by the government and relocated as a good thing, because it almost always happens way above market rates. There are exceptions, of course, but my impression is that it is not the norm. Feel…

Nothing really to disagree with here tbh; I didn't mean to say that authoritarianism was the reason for everything they've achieved, but rather that it greases the wheels so to speak.

I was really just responding to the discussion that ensued when an earlier commenter said that poor regulation was not the reason the US modernised rapidly but rather population growth and post war economics, and another responded with China as a counter example to that, my point being that China's situation was much different than the US so it's not really a useful comparison.

I am neither a defender of China, nor the US ;-)

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#173

Post by immibis »

hilbert42 wrote: post #169
Hawxy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know how well-organized or efficient they are They're 50 employees with an annual budget of $14.4 million. The cost/benefit ratio here is very good.

For that trivial amount this has to be anti-tech anti-science thinking at work. What's this administration trying do, return the US to the Third World or the Dark Ages? Madness.

Well, yes, pretty much. It's an observed pattern among authoritarian states that actual facts are frequently in opposition to the authority, therefore, actual facts must be eliminated.

It's a silver lining in disguise, really. Such countries tend to collapse relatively quickly because it turns out facts are important for running a country - look at the USSR's fake food supply. Relatively quickly could still be a decade, though.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#174

Post by immibis »

almosthere wrote: post #87
Rebelgecko wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they want to fund a group that calls them out for taking deadly shortcuts to save money?

That's how the FDA works, so, should we just shut them down?

They're literally shutting down the FDA as we speak so yes?

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#175

Post by FirmwareBurner »

immibis wrote: post #173
hilbert42 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that trivial amount this has to be anti-tech anti-science thinking at work. What's this administration trying do, return the US to the Third World or the Dark Ages? Madness.

Well, yes, pretty much. It's an observed pattern among authoritarian states that actual facts are frequently in opposition to the authority, therefore, actual facts must be eliminated. It's a silver lining in disguise, really. Such countries tend to collapse relatively quickly because it turns out facts are important for running a country - look at the USSR's fake food supply. Relatively quickly could still be a deca…

China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly. It's what the western powers were banking on would happen after they had success with USSR. It didn't pan out the way they thought. Not even close.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#176

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #175
immibis wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, pretty much. It's an observed pattern among authoritarian states that actual facts are frequently in opposition to the authority, therefore, actual facts must be eliminated. It's a silver lining in disguise, really. Such countries tend to collapse relatively quickly because it turns out facts are important for running a country - look at the USSR's fake food supply. Relatively quickly could still be a deca…

China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly. It's what the western powers were banking on would happen after they had success with USSR. It didn't pan out the way they thought. Not even close.

China is much more dispersed (because of it's size and some localisation/liberalisation) and they seem to understand at some level that reality exists and can't just be wished away.

It's an open question if they'll retain that with Xi now President for life.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#178

Post by FirmwareBurner »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #176
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly. It's what the western powers were banking on would happen after they had success with USSR. It didn't pan out the way they thought. Not even close.

China is much more dispersed (because of it's size and some localisation/liberalisation) and they seem to understand at some level that reality exists and can't just be wished away. It's an open question if they'll retain that with Xi now President for life.

> they seem to understand at some level that reality exists and can't just be wished away.

US and EU seem to have forgotten that, at least when you look at the decisions of their leadership.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#179

Post by hilbert42 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #175
immibis wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, pretty much. It's an observed pattern among authoritarian states that actual facts are frequently in opposition to the authority, therefore, actual facts must be eliminated. It's a silver lining in disguise, really. Such countries tend to collapse relatively quickly because it turns out facts are important for running a country - look at the USSR's fake food supply. Relatively quickly could still be a deca…

China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly. It's what the western powers were banking on would happen after they had success with USSR. It didn't pan out the way they thought. Not even close.

"China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly."

Why? Because if you check the CVs of most of Politburo members they have degrees in science and engineering. QED!

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#180

Post by FirmwareBurner »

hilbert42 wrote: post #179
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly. It's what the western powers were banking on would happen after they had success with USSR. It didn't pan out the way they thought. Not even close.

"China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly." Why? Because if you check the CVs of most of Politburo members they have degrees in science and engineering. QED!

And what's stopping the American people from voting smart people with engineering degrees to power instead of lying loud mouth conmen?

Maybe because modern American mainstream culture has people worshiping the "clever" conman who got rich quick by gaming the system and scamming others, as opposed to hard working nerd who put in the long time and effort for an honest enrichment.

Democratic societies get the leaders they deserve as they are a mirror of the people themselves.

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