In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships • Hacker News Board

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#171

Post by pugworthy » Tue, May 13, 2025, 8:49 PM UTC

alphazard wrote: post #57

In software, often the people are the source of stress. Building the software is easy to many in this industry, and the vast majority of the value produced came from someone who thought creating it was easy. Being surrounded by rock stars all doing something they find easy is sublime, and I encourage everyone to seek out those environments. They exist and are fleeting. The stress comes from people who are bad at what…

> They don't have vision for how they will accomplish what is asked of them.

Or they don't have the vision to know how others will accomplish what they are asking for.

This is a big struggle for me; people who want to play product owner, and make requests that are very ignorant of work required. Or think they know just what work is required and spell out development approaches despite not having any background or experience in software development.

They key really is getting to know what it is they really want to do and then deliver a solution. Which can be its own exercise in frustration.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#172

Post by hobs » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:07 PM UTC

FitCodIa wrote: post #51

hobs wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and toxic positivity obliterates morale - being unable to acknowledge the negative outcomes of decisions means that you are just working towards some idiot's dream until you go play the roulette wheel again to figure out what the next people are not telling you about this place. This is what literally makes tech workers go dream about farming.

Precisely. Fuck "yes people", and the commitment to lying to ourselves / to each other about broken things, as an institutional strategy. If we always dismiss the negatives, then responsibility and accountability have no meaning. Every organization needs a few people who act as the org's mirror and conscience.

There's no reward for it, but it is required.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#173

Post by int_19h » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:21 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #97

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your choice. It's not a bad idea to answer "why are you leaving your current job" with "i'm looking for greater opportunities to [the opposite of why you are leaving your job]" and people can read between the lines AND have less of the concerns they would if you went guns blazing on the bridges behind you

You can be honest about why your previous employer wasn’t the right fit without burning bridges. I really dislike all of this “reading between the lines” aren’t Americans supposed to be direct?

> I really dislike all of this “reading between the lines” aren’t Americans supposed to be direct?

You're talking about a culture in which the standard greeting is "How are you?", and the standard response to said greeting is, "I'm fine!" - even when you're obviously not fine.

So, no, it's very much not direct. If you want to see what a "direct" software engineering culture looks like, look at Eastern Europe. There, people will routinely say things like "this code is crap", and no-one (including the author of said code!) bats an eye at it because it's supposed to be taken at face value, not as an insult.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#174

Post by int_19h » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:27 PM UTC

Magmalgebra wrote: post #45

kentrado wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying it is better if the candidate lies. Otherwise you will be forced to reject him because there might be a possibility that the problem was him. Seems like you are hiring the best liars. Or at least the best at playing an arbitrary game of saying and not saying the correct things that won't trigger a rejection. At this point, are you even needed? Maybe we could replace the interview process with a lott…

> So you are saying it is better if the candidate lies. This is a toxic framing of an essential test. Constructing polite fictions is an essential skill for collaboration - no less essential than coding. Saying you're leaving in part because "your vision for the product has drfted from leadership's" tells me you probably think they were a pack of moronic baboons and that if you feel that way about some of your future…

> Constructing polite fictions is an essential skill for collaboration

This is very much culture-dependent, not some fundamental truth.

It is true for American culture, yes. There are many others.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#175

Post by int_19h » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:29 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #68

FitCodIa wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gallows humor I think that may be a very cultural thing. I love gallows humor (I understand, enjoy, and cultivate it myself), but some cultures don't even understand it.

Yeah, probably true.

This entire subject is very culture-specific.

For example, if you try pulling US-style toxic positivity on a dev team from Poland or Russia, the result isn't going to be pretty all around.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#176

Post by int_19h » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:33 PM UTC

nemomarx wrote: post #34

dogleash wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is just so inauthentic I agree and resent that work is just a place where I go to get lied to and lie right back. We've found that lying is a highly successful workplace strategy. But the point of the lying game is to never admit we're lying. The pretzels people will twist themselves in to avoid the cognitive dissonance of lying all the time and not wanting to be a lair is maddening. I find facing it head on is a re…

I feel like this is broad enough to make most social interactions lying - if someone asks how you're doing and you say "good" and don't immediately vent about issues, you're trying to create a different impression, and so on? in many polite circumstances people don't want to hear a truth, they want things to go smoothly and easily.

> if someone asks how you're doing and you say "good" and don't immediately vent about issues, you're trying to create a different impression, and so on?

This is exactly how many people outside of US feel when they observe the customary American greeting exchange of "How are you?" / "I'm fine, thanks." when it's patently obvious that the person asking doesn't actually expect any other response even though the person responding is obviously not fine.

Like, we get that this is a cultural thing and that it would be wrong to ascribe some profound meaning to such individual interactions. At the same time, it does make the overall culture look bad when that sort of thing is expected and even enforced.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#177

Post by int_19h » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

MichaelRo wrote: post #37

Unfortunately, in 20+ years and some 7 jobs in the meantime, I never ever got a job by means of an inside recommendation nor was I able to get someone I recommended to be hired. And the reason is, I'm a lowly engineer and that's all. I have zero clout, HR and hiring managers couldn't give a shit of whom I recommend. So if you "prioritize relationships" with an ulterior purpose (get hired eventually by some "relation"…

It really depends on company culture.

To give a personal counter-example, I'm an engineer. Based on my recommendation, my current employer hired a person who was fired (not laid off, but actually fired!) from my previous workplace. And my recommendation was itself based on a recommendation of my friend who is a former colleague at the aforementioned previous workplace, and whose opinion I trust and value highly. Of course the hiree still had to pass the interviews etc, and that isn't easy in and of itself; but my personal recommendation was what got their foot in the door.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#178

Post by otp209 » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:43 PM UTC

I don't mix relationships with work. Being kind to people for the purposes of recommendations is not the same as a relationship.

Relationships are a thing I support outside work. Inside work, I might build rapport and expand my professional network; that is NOT THE SAME as meeting people for the sake of pursuing relationships, and as much as possible one should be kept away from the other.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#179

Post by gdubs » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:43 PM UTC

Many of you are more valuable than you realize and it pains me to read so many comments about how you need to frame things "just so" in an interview, or "be careful not to lose your patience ever".

It's dehumanizing, and it undervalues your inherent worth and skill set.

Obviously don't be a jerk. Beyond that you will really damage your mental well-being if you're constantly trying to put on a certain face or worry how things will "play" with recruiters.

The best advice is to try to stay generally optimistic and collaborative, and to take pride in your craft and lead by example. But also not to discount the fact that you might in fact be more capable of following your passions and starting your own thing than you realize.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#180

Post by ponector » Tue, May 13, 2025, 9:44 PM UTC

jon-wood wrote: post #38

cj wrote: post #3

Similarly, once you’re looking for a new job, assuming you’re looking for roles with the same job title you had before, do everything you can to paint your previous job in a positive light even if it was miserable. If you don’t, interviewers are left wondering how to interpret your dissatisfaction at your previous job.

I think there's a degree to which this is true, I wouldn't walk into an interview and immediately start slagging off my old employer, but if you're interviewing me and get all worked up when I say bad things about them in answer to the question "why are you leaving your current job" that's on you and I won't regret not getting the job.

That part of the interview is a bunch of bullshit questions and socially acceptable answers from both sides. It is simply to check is candidate agrees to play the game by the rules.

Why are you looking for a new job? Because I have a dickhead manager and looking for a higher salary. But my answer will be I'm looking for new challenges, for opportunity to grow.

Both sides are telling lies during the interview.