A community-led fork of Organic Maps • Hacker News Board

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#171

Post by will-bradley » Mon, May 12, 2025, 8:55 PM UTC

pbmonster wrote: post #84

RetroTechie wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need both: the map data (OSM project), and software for viewing/using it. Ideally any app using OSM data would enable contributing to the underlaying map data. But that's probably not how it works. For what it's worth: I like Organic Maps for being more lightweight, quicker rendering & simpler configuration than OSMand. But it (still? haven't used in a while) does lack some useful features like points of interest…

> Would be nice if it were easy to share (offline) map data between apps. Download in app A, backup on sd card , use from app B, C, D, or on other device by swap/copy sd card. Maybe it's possible, but I haven't figured out how (on Android). I'm also really hoping for that. Some kind of local OSM map server that all apps in the ecosystem call to provide geodata. I run OSMand, StreetComplete, Organic Maps and Magic Ear…

I agree, the issue is that the map data is highly customized. I believe StreetComplete uses online map tiles so that's less of a concern, but i.e. with Organic Maps the map data is highly tied to the app version: support for a data entry needs both app/rendering/logic support and presence in the data structure, and full forwards/backwards compatibility isn't always possible. The map files also need to be optimized for Organic Maps' speed/usability improvements over apps like OsmAnd: pre-indexing, etc. Maybe someday there's one standard format for it, but for now each app makes its own map files.

Also, mobile apps often have strict privacy lately around what files they can access: they're not just sitting on the filesystem, they're in access-controlled app-specific folders. That's good for privacy/security, but a dealbreaker for first-class sharing of information between apps.

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#172

Post by will-bradley » Mon, May 12, 2025, 8:58 PM UTC

kmarc wrote: post #32

Sad to see the current state of mobile OSM-based apps. Maps.me becoming OrganicMaps, now this. Lot of development effort, great work going into it, but somehow, after years, the apps don't feel more user-friendly. I was pushing hard to replace Google Maps, but eventually, I gave up. OsmAnd is great if you need that "swiss army knife of OSM apps" on your phone, but I rarely do. Same with Maps.me/Organic Maps, try to s…

There's a lot of discussion about bicycle routing improvements, as well as displaying alternate routes. I expect these conversations to be continued in CoMaps, so your input is valued and welcome there! https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps/issues/9748

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#173

Post by will-bradley » Mon, May 12, 2025, 8:59 PM UTC

saubeidl wrote: post #90

boramalper wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So now we're at a fork of a fork? This history is full of such "forks of forks" (whatever you're trying to imply with that): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix#/media/File:Un...

I'm not trying to imply anything with that other than that it seems the original fork seems to have failed in its stated goals of being the community-led, non-commercialized version.

Yeah it's unfortunate. Allegedly Roman wrote those goals but the other co-founders never really went along with them.

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#174

Post by maxerickson » Mon, May 12, 2025, 9:01 PM UTC

tomsmeding wrote: post #167

lolinder wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the open source community is too quick to make "just fork it later" the answer to all our governance woes. Look at the state of WordPress: the (B?)DFL actively bans people from the community for critiquing his self-described "nuclear war" waged against his biggest competitor in the hosting space, which "nuclear war" has caught thousands of members of the community in the crossfire. And yet we see no fork…

A difference between Wordpress and Organic Maps, though, is that Wordpress is a framework whereas Organic Maps is an application. Switching to a fork of Wordpress means a different extension marketplace, various config files that may need to be changed, etc. Switching to a fork of Organic Maps is just downloading a different app that does the same thing. Completely irrespective of the governance structure of Organic…

There needs to be a server generating up to date map files. Which isn't complicated in comparison, but it's a decent bit of resources.

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#175

Post by danhor » Mon, May 12, 2025, 9:20 PM UTC

karussell wrote: post #81

kmarc wrote: post #32

Sad to see the current state of mobile OSM-based apps. Maps.me becoming OrganicMaps, now this. Lot of development effort, great work going into it, but somehow, after years, the apps don't feel more user-friendly. I was pushing hard to replace Google Maps, but eventually, I gave up. OsmAnd is great if you need that "swiss army knife of OSM apps" on your phone, but I rarely do. Same with Maps.me/Organic Maps, try to s…

OSMAnd and OrganicMaps both have the limitation (and big advantage) of functioning offline by default. The routing will be much more powerful (with alternatives on by default) and faster if you enable an online routing service. For OSMAnd this is possible with e.g. GraphHopper: https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2024/02/27/osmand-with-grap... The same is true for address search. If you have an online address search lik…

At least for bycicle routing, Brouter also runs offline and is much more performant than both OSMAnd and OrganicMaps (and can be integrated into OSMAnd).

To me it feels like OSMAnd heavily prioritizes feature develompent over performance, which is fair enough but still annoying.

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#176

Post by kmarc » Mon, May 12, 2025, 9:28 PM UTC

JCattheATM wrote: post #164

kmarc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other map apps offer different routes between two points, showing the trade-off in time. Organic Maps calculates one route, and it doesn't matter if it's through a deadly car-congested highway. My example is going from Zürich West to Downtown. Here is my experience: * Organic maps: calculates fast, although through a street with a lot of traffic, no alternatives offered. * OsmAnd: takes 5 seconds on a flagship phone…

> it's maybe 20 minutes instead of 18 minutes, but much safer). I can't see how a bike would ever be safer than a car when looking at stats.

Choosing the bike path for bike navigation would be, although slower, much safer than what the apps propose

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#177

Post by et-al » Mon, May 12, 2025, 9:30 PM UTC

nelgaard wrote: post #133

et-al wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what it's worth: I like Organic Maps for being more lightweight, quicker rendering & simpler configuration than OSMand. But it (still? haven't used in a while) does lack some useful features like points of interest (supermarkets, gas stations & such). Am I misinterpreting something? This is because of the underlying OSM data. So one should add these places to OSM so downstream apps will show the places you want…

It it not just because of underlying OSM data. Navigation apps such as OrganicMaps and OsmAnd filter OSM data, and package it in way that takes up less space. I.e., it will omit individual trees, manholes, etc. It also omits tags from OSM objects that it does keep. This is all to to make it possible to fit enough maps on a phone and also there have code that can use that data (for searching and displaying) Take for e…

Thanks for clarifying!

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#178

Post by matkoniecz » Mon, May 12, 2025, 9:40 PM UTC

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #13

Why do people contribute to Organic Maps and not to OSM? I always assumed that Organic Maps was a sophisticated way to distribute OSM data, nothing more.

> I always assumed that Organic Maps was a sophisticated way to distribute OSM data, nothing more.

sophisticated way to distribute OSM data also needs development efforts

this is not an easy or trivial project

there are also numerous other FOSS projects in OSM ecosystem

mapping itself and improving map data is also very welcome, obviously!

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#179

Post by matkoniecz » Mon, May 12, 2025, 9:42 PM UTC

ihatehn wrote: post #110

maelito wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OSM-the-database needs a general public app where contribution is possible to finally be popular. Organic was seen by many as this app, despite its specific choices like being offline. Contributing to this app is hence very important for OSM to exist given Google & Apple Maps.

FYI the OSM foundation will probably always be reluctant to sponsor or appear to prefer a certain end-user app. I don't know exactly why, but they really do see themselves as a vendor agnostic database, and don't want to make a popular website or mobile app that actually gets traction any time soon. But yes I agree with you.

I would say that current situation is an example of some risks that would appear in case of officially endorsing specific project

Re: A community-led fork of Organic Maps

#180

Post by palata » Mon, May 12, 2025, 9:43 PM UTC

maelito wrote: post #160

palata wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why they went for something other than MapLibre. OSMAnd existed looong before MapLibre :-).

Sorry, what I wanted to say is I don't know why they stick with their stack, instead of doing like Streetcomplete.

It most likely involves a lot more than "just swapping the maps engine". Everything is built on top of their stack. It would basically mean rewriting an app from scratch.