How to live an intellectually rich life • Hacker News Board

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#171

Post by gen220 » Fri, May 02, 2025, 5:47 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #46

WillAdams wrote: post #32

For my part, one of the most striking things which I recall from my youth was reading Dumas' _The Count of Monte Cristo_ and the Abbé Faria contending that everything a gentleman needed to make his way in life was contained in less than 100 books --- which he had memorized the content of, and could impart to the young Edmond Dantes. A naïve younger me tried to brute force this by reading one non-fiction book from eac…

I like your idea, but it's missing any sort of practical skills (which Dantes and Faria certainly had). What would be more interesting, IMHO, books that Cyrus Smith from The Mysterious Island had memorized. Just from what I saw on HN, I remember Gingery books on metal workshop from scratch, and some homesteading manual from late 19th century.

“The Good Life” by Helen and Scott Nearing has an excellent bibliography/citations section.

How to build stone houses, compost and farm organically, etc. A good primer on homesteading. Contains references to things like 19th century homestead manuals

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#172

Post by nonethewiser » Fri, May 02, 2025, 5:50 PM UTC

lanfeust6 wrote: post #62

xwiz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pairing production and consumption can be very satisfying. Some personal examples: - Cooking a novel dish, then eating it - Setting up a music server, then listening to music with it - (With friends) Making a pen-and-paper game, then playing it

One might argue that everything we produce lends itself to some kind of consumption. Moreover, not all actions lead to tangible "products", but they can lead to useful results and experiences. Sports and games are an example.

Perhaps production tends towards consumption but not the opposite. If I make music I'll probably listen to it. But I can easily listen to music without making it.

And agree sports are an interesting example. It kind of fits my mental model of consumption in many ways: something you do that's primary effect transforms you. Watching TV, playing a game, etc. The effect being something chemical that is satisfying. I guess with sports or exercise the internal change is more physical (muscle, endurance, etc) vs chemical. Although I suppose you are acting on the world as well - you are scoring a point or advancing a position. It's just more ephemeral (ends when game ends) and arbitrary.

Im sure even just in terms of chemical reactions there is going to be a clean split between stuff like playing video games or watching TV vs. sports, building something, etc. Dopamine vs... ?

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#173

Post by nonethewiser » Fri, May 02, 2025, 5:52 PM UTC

Eextra953 wrote: post #82

tomrod wrote: post #12

I tried this for awhile, but was dissatisfied. I found myself a constant consumer of intellectual material instead of being an engaged participant. Once I realized that, I set course to become more of a producer of useful things. That's led me to woodworking, to running a consultancy, to producing AI/ML for nonprofits, and to writing academic works. All in all, I enjoy life substantially.

I've been trying to create/produce more but I'm stuck in the consumption mindset. I can't think of what to create. How did you decide what useful things to produce?

>I can't think of what to create. How did you decide what useful things to produce?

What you like to consume.

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#174

Post by _m_p » Fri, May 02, 2025, 5:52 PM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #126

crims0n wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am about a quarter of the way through Modern Library’s top 100 and it has been a worthwhile journey. It is “just” literary fiction but it is among the best humanity has produced. I have learned so much about the human condition, my ability to articulate ideas has improved tremendously, and I feel like my mind has been “freed from the tyranny of the present” (to quote Cicero). https://sites.prh.com/modern-library-to…

Anyone who puts "Ulysses" at the top of a best books list is suffering from expertitis. Ulysses has a massive user experience problem. It's hard. Dense, convoluted, absurd. If your friend asks you for a good book, you don't recommend it. The only time you do is when your college English major, or advanced highschooler, who is bored with the tropes of even very good novels wants to stretch themselves. Then you hand th…

> Ulysses has a massive user experience problem

Seems this book is not intended for you then!

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#175

Post by gen220 » Fri, May 02, 2025, 5:53 PM UTC

stryan wrote: post #154

Y_Y wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this idea, and the lost is full of gems, but I see a couple of issues. If you actually intend you or anyone else to read these and stay sane I'd remove the mathematical tables (there is value in reading these, but only for a very rare soul), the Bible (lots of really dry stuff about begetting and knowing), the complete works of Shakespeare (hard to understand without careful study, way too long to cafefully st…

> the Bible (lots of really dry stuff about begetting and knowing) I'd suggest replacing the Bible with just the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke[0], and John). Removing it entirely seems like a mistake since you'd lose a lot of the literary and moral underpinnings of Western culture, but having to read the bible in its entirely sounds exhausting. I did it (reading all four gospels) recently and can attest even outside o…

I think the Bible can mostly be distilled to Genesis, Exodus and the Gospels without losing too much. Each of those books is eminently legible in its own right. You could arguably make the sermon on the mount its own book, “communist manifesto” style.

I think those individual chapters would be super compelling to modern readers with or without a religious background, but their legibility is held back by the rest of the Bible’s contents. How is someone non-religious supposed to figure out that it’s ok to start reading a book at section 2, chapter 1? :)

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#176

Post by infecto » Fri, May 02, 2025, 5:54 PM UTC

WillAdams wrote: post #125

crims0n wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am about a quarter of the way through Modern Library’s top 100 and it has been a worthwhile journey. It is “just” literary fiction but it is among the best humanity has produced. I have learned so much about the human condition, my ability to articulate ideas has improved tremendously, and I feel like my mind has been “freed from the tyranny of the present” (to quote Cicero). https://sites.prh.com/modern-library-to…

I've read more than half of those, and every time I see that list, I really wish that almost every book would be paired w/ one which enhances/comments on either the book or that same theme. e.g., _Kim_ by Rudyard Kipling should be paired w/ Robert Heinlein's _Citizen of the Galaxy_, or _The Grapes of Wrath_, which was cribbed from Sanora Babb's notes w/o permission should be paired w/ her _Whose Names Are Unknown_: h…

I’m not a literary scholar, but this seems like a great use case for ChatGPT. I’ve used it for music explorations and found it surprisingly good at providing context and interesting suggestions. I tried your idea with The Grapes of Wrath and it surfaced Whose Names Are Unknown, with a thoughtful explanation. Obviously it’s qualitative, but you can shape the prompt to reflect your taste and still get some worthwhile discoveries.

[1] https://chatgpt.com/share/68150654-bebc-8010-ad4b-050f5b39d4...

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#177

Post by nonethewiser » Fri, May 02, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

safety1st wrote: post #34

BoxFour wrote: post #25

This is a little meandering so just to focus on one part: Philosophy can be valuable, but applying the ideas meaningfully requires discernment. I’m thinking particularly about the popularity of “Meditations”, for example. Take Plato, for example: He and his also-famous mentor believed knowledge was a form of recollection from past lives, an idea illustrated with an unconvincing geometry lesson in Phaedo (EDIT: It’s M…

Philosophy is just one of the liberal arts. This idea has declined in popularity in recent years but I still think there's a lot to be said for possessing a liberal arts education. If you have a good one your understanding of the world around you gets broader and deeper. You recognize why things are the way they are. In the long term you may spot opportunities you wouldn't have otherwise, or be able to solve problems…

>If you have a good one your understanding of the world around you gets broader and deeper.

The problem is, is it _unique_ to liberal arts? That is what must be true to give it some purpose. If you can just read a bunch of books or study something else with additional positive benefits why do liberal arts?

I am a liberal arts and computer science degree holder. I don't think liberal arts is _worthless_. I do think its a terrible value proposition and that the positive side effects can be achieved while studying something far more marketable. Computer science has made me a much stronger general problem solver and a better critical thinker than liberal arts did. These are the primary skills touted by the liberal arts.

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#178

Post by dash2 » Fri, May 02, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

325 points for this nonsense? Oh, HN.

From the title I expected something serious. I gave up halfway, having pigeonholed the pompous verbiage as a first cousin to Women Who Run With The Wolves. But really, the game was up when I read the phrase "late stage capitalism", which is the verbal equivalent of a plague bell, used by halfwits to warn us of their presence.

Friends, here's how to have an intellectually rich life: read serious authors. There's Montaigne out there. There's Orwell. After a while, you'll recognize good writing and thinking, and you won't waste your time on pap.

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#179

Post by nonethewiser » Fri, May 02, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

throwup238 wrote: post #53

safety1st wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philosophy is just one of the liberal arts. This idea has declined in popularity in recent years but I still think there's a lot to be said for possessing a liberal arts education. If you have a good one your understanding of the world around you gets broader and deeper. You recognize why things are the way they are. In the long term you may spot opportunities you wouldn't have otherwise, or be able to solve problems…

> Philosophy is just one of the liberal arts. This idea has declined in popularity in recent years but I still think there's a lot to be said for possessing a liberal arts education. If you have a good one your understanding of the world around you gets broader and deeper. Look no further than all the AI debates on HN: from the perspective of someone with a couple of college classes on philosophy (not even a minor),…

Why shouldnt people on a message forum explore "ideas that philosophers moved on from hundreds of years ago?" It seems to suggest philosophy is more about the conclusions than the process. I cant think of an academic field where that is less true.

Re: How to live an intellectually rich life

#180

Post by gen220 » Fri, May 02, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #5

Just because you can prove mathematically that most link chains "end" at "philosophy" doesn't mean that's the end you should end up at. I spend at least 2 nights a week just reading links through wikipedia as I'm falling asleep, and I almost inevitably end up at languages and cultures or historical events that I knew little about. Philosophy isn't an end, and it's pretty meaningless without some stone cold knowledge…

I think you’d be interested in Tolstoy’s view of “Philosophy”, which he expresses in “Confession / What I Believe”.

Basically that the reason why philosophy is cold and meaningless is because it tries to separate itself from the source of meaning, which is intrinsically subjective and physical and spiritual.

Philosophy’s logical conclusions are relativism and nihilism (or at least they were in Tolstoy’s time? I’m not a philosopher), because they try to understand the world with a pretext that denies its vitality.

Common folk / common sense frown on these forms of philosophy, because they miss the point in a sense; they don’t actually tell you how to live in a moral way. Tolstoy thought intellectuals grossly underrated the perspective of folk wisdom in that way. We’ve made some progress in that department, since his time, but it’s still largely true today.