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Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

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Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a nitpick -- a fraction of their profit (net income), not revenue. Most of revenue already goes out the door as expenses. If you fined as a reasonable fraction of revenue, you'd simply bankrupt a corporation, which is not what you want if your goal is to change behavior. If global revenue is $20B and we assume 20% profitability, that's $4B, and so this fine is 15% of global profit. That's a gigantic fine. You al…

This is wrong, and even revenue isn't sufficient - you want to fine a sizeable fraction of the total value of all assets of the company based on the scope, duration, and severity of the violation. Companies don't protect user data. They store, silo, and secure user data for as little cost as possible. No meaningful consequences means they will continue to harvest and disperse user data at an increasing rate until we…

This is an incomplete understanding of the stakeholders in these rulings.

1. The goal of the fines is to act as a deterrent and to encourage companies to get back into compliance.

2. The arbiters aren't operating in a vacuum. Bankrupting services that the citizens of a country rely on is unpopular and not in service of goal #1.

3. We know that this is the case because Uber and other ride sharing services were able to violate the law and convince voters to have the law changed to permit these services.

4. Fines impacting net revenue are dealt with seriously by companies when they are adequately large, e.g. 10% of net revenue. Compliance departments are not funded as a job creation or charity exercise. When companies report earnings, these fines frequently determine whether earnings guidance is achieved. This impacts company officers' compensation.

tl;dr, you passionately believe in these views, but it is not one held by the majority. Your minority view should not be the basis of public policy.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#172

'massive' -- by which standards? It is high time we got used to companies being fined a reasonable fraction of their revenue. And TikTok's global revenue last year alone was estimated at $20 billion to $26 billion [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-byt...

Just a nitpick -- a fraction of their profit (net income), not revenue. Most of revenue already goes out the door as expenses. If you fined as a reasonable fraction of revenue, you'd simply bankrupt a corporation, which is not what you want if your goal is to change behavior. If global revenue is $20B and we assume 20% profitability, that's $4B, and so this fine is 15% of global profit. That's a gigantic fine. You al…

When you get a fine in Europe it tends to be related to your income. Not your income after your expenses, your actual income.

Finland for example will fine you 100k for speeding if your income is high enough. In the UK fines range from 50% of your weekly income (band A) to 600% of your weekly income. Someone on £500 a week income and spending that on housing, food etc, could pay £3k. Someone with the same offence on £50k a week would be fined £300k.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To hurt enough to be worth changing the fines don't have to be a fraction of their global revenue, they have to be significantly more than the benefit gained from the illegal behavior. According to that article TikTok made $10B of that $20B in the US alone, which puts a cap on their European revenue of $10B (likely significantly less because this ignores Brazil and Indonesia, which according to the linked article are…

The thing is, TikTok is not accused of directly profiting off of this, they are accused of operating as part of the Chinese espionage apparatus. Assuming that this is the case, TikTok is going to be happy to continue paying fines as long as they break even worldwide. And the US is making no serious attempts to rein in this sort of behavior so they've got all that US profit to use.

So the thing about fines for non-compliance is that they only have one direction to go if you don't comply.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#174

'massive' -- by which standards? It is high time we got used to companies being fined a reasonable fraction of their revenue. And TikTok's global revenue last year alone was estimated at $20 billion to $26 billion [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-byt...

Someone here floated that instead of fines it should be government ownership in the company. You dilute the original owners, so they get punished for bad behavior. As a part owner, the government is now 'inside' and has a whole lot more visibility/ability to request information. And over time, should bad behavior continue, the government gains control.

Look at a company like Tesla whose stock is super high but profits low. A percentage of profits wouldn't mater to them. But government control via stock would get their attention and the attention of stock owners real quick.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think TikTok cares about money? They're a propaganda arm. They don't give a shit about profitability.

Weird that a "communist propaganda arm" would donate millions upon millions to RIGHT WING American Politicians/Parties who oppose almost all leftist beliefs, and have a board made up partly of Western Capitalists. [0]: https://www.barrons.com/articles/trump-campaign-donations-ti... [1]: https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/tiktok-ceo-tr... [2]: https://mezha.media/en/2025/01/17/tiktok-to-be-the-main-spon...…

People say that Israel propped up Hamas in the past so not really that weird on a conceptual level.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#176
post #158
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also have to remember that individual countries fining on global revenue runs the risk of fines "duplicating" each other for the same or similar behavior, again bankrupting a corporation when the goal should be to change behavior. This is explicitly not a concern under GDPR. The "one-stop shop" mechanism means that all issues across the EU get funneled to the lead supervisory authority, which is always Ireland…

Yes, but there are countries outside of the EU who may also decide to fine based on global revenue.

Either obey the law in those countries, or don't do business there.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a nitpick -- a fraction of their profit (net income), not revenue. Most of revenue already goes out the door as expenses. If you fined as a reasonable fraction of revenue, you'd simply bankrupt a corporation, which is not what you want if your goal is to change behavior. If global revenue is $20B and we assume 20% profitability, that's $4B, and so this fine is 15% of global profit. That's a gigantic fine. You al…

This is wrong, and even revenue isn't sufficient - you want to fine a sizeable fraction of the total value of all assets of the company based on the scope, duration, and severity of the violation. Companies don't protect user data. They store, silo, and secure user data for as little cost as possible. No meaningful consequences means they will continue to harvest and disperse user data at an increasing rate until we…

> Let these asshats go bankrupt.

No need to go bankrupt, just force-issue more shares, diluting the existing shareholders. These are then sold on the open market and the revenue goes to paying the fine.

Only if the share price drops to zero does the company then go bankrupt.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong, and even revenue isn't sufficient - you want to fine a sizeable fraction of the total value of all assets of the company based on the scope, duration, and severity of the violation. Companies don't protect user data. They store, silo, and secure user data for as little cost as possible. No meaningful consequences means they will continue to harvest and disperse user data at an increasing rate until we…

This is an incomplete understanding of the stakeholders in these rulings. 1. The goal of the fines is to act as a deterrent and to encourage companies to get back into compliance. 2. The arbiters aren't operating in a vacuum. Bankrupting services that the citizens of a country rely on is unpopular and not in service of goal #1. 3. We know that this is the case because Uber and other ride sharing services were able to…

So a company should be free to break as many laws as it wants and never have any risk to its owners?

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#179
post #90

'massive' -- by which standards? It is high time we got used to companies being fined a reasonable fraction of their revenue. And TikTok's global revenue last year alone was estimated at $20 billion to $26 billion [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-byt...

How is $600M not massive?

To someone on the median global salary of $300 a month, $1000 is a lot of money.

To someone on $500k a year, $1k is a night out in vegas.

To a billionaire, $1k is toilet paper.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#180
post #130
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse than the small amount is the length of time it took. If you accept the accusations at face value, China has been spying on a large fraction of EU citizens for 4 years and can keep doing it for another 6 months (after which they probably won't actually stop) for the eventual fine of a few dollars per victim. The US isn't moving any faster, and most other countries aren't moving at all. So the end result is that…

Does Meta or X get the same scrutiny or is this the China bogeyman?

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