Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 224 posts

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#171

Post by Veedrac »

apexalpha wrote: post #115
kubb wrote: post #15

Chongqing seems incredible on pictures and YouTube videos. No doubt it's a comfortable place to live for many people, and surely it isn't perfect, especially when it comes to things like air pollution. What amazes me is China's capacity to do development on a large scale, something that's completely missing in Europe. If we had efficient large-scale construction solved, we could really put a dent in the cost of livin…

The Netherlands grew by 1 million people between 2015 and 2025, roughly 6,5% increase in population. And (almost) everyone has a house. Except we don't build flats and suburban one-house-fits-all massive construction projects. We mostly do smallscale development times a 1000, in stead of one big one. We think it results in better cities. Though, it is true we should build even more.

I don't think you're understanding the comparison here. The Chongqing metro area in 2015 had a population of 13.4m, today it's 18.2m, a 4.8m difference, or 36% growth.

The Netherlands went from 16.9 to 18.1 today, a 1.2m difference or 7.1% growth. Good by nobody-builds-anything regulatory paralysis standards. Standstill by Chongqing standards.

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#172

Post by maxglute »

whatever1 wrote: post #20
kubb wrote: post #15

Chongqing seems incredible on pictures and YouTube videos. No doubt it's a comfortable place to live for many people, and surely it isn't perfect, especially when it comes to things like air pollution. What amazes me is China's capacity to do development on a large scale, something that's completely missing in Europe. If we had efficient large-scale construction solved, we could really put a dent in the cost of livin…

The cost of housing in the large Chinese megacities is comparable to, if not higher than, that in Western countries. Therefore, they are not constructing housing at a fast enough pace to meet their population’s needs. However, they do build at a rate that is 2-4 times faster than that of Western countries.

> they are not constructing housing at a fast enough pace to meet their population’s needs

It's more accurate to say PRC/CCP understood it's _impossible_ to build enough housing in Tier1 cities where everyone wants to be, the supply/demand curve will never make sense outside of micro/small countries where everyone can fit in a handful of cities. Can't fit 1 billion people in Beijing/Shanghai/Guahzhou/Shenzhen etc, need 30/40/50 cities that are almost as enticing.

What PRC is constructing "fast enough" pace are entirely new cities / developing shitholes into T2/T3 alternatives to shift demand away from T1/T2s. IMO that's the real lesson west needs to learn but can't due to lack of hukou / internal migration controls - spreading out desirable urban areas because talent / productive centres tends to agglomerate ala zipf's law, which Chinese development patterns does not follow. IIRC 10-15 years ago, there were ongoing academic debate about PRC's urban density (or lack of due due to sunlight planning laws), and how PRC could be more competitive if it doubled density in T1 cities, but central gov said no, better build more desirable, low CoL cities (especially inland / poorer regions) where _most_ of population can distribute vs hammer T1 further into unsustainability.

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#174

Post by Traubenfuchs »

kubb wrote: post #159
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an awful place and pretty much all of us Viennese that don't live there make fun of it.

What's so bad about it other than it's obviously not the cool, centrally located district? Well connected, long time residents who have access to flats in the inner city always feel superior to the people who move to the city after them, and have to live on the outskirts, that doesn't say much.

1. it‘s a concrete dessert

2. only every second U2 goes there

3. disregarding the doubled U2 wait times, it takes 40 minutes to get to Karlsplatz, 46 to Stephansplatz, 47 to the main train station, 53 to Westbahnhof, 54 to Landstrasse -those times get much worse if you don‘t live centrally in Seestadt. And those times are AWFUL for Vienna, anything over 30 minutes is awful.

4. The „See“ is actually a joke

5. if you live there, people won‘t want to visit you as it would take them over an hour to get home (unless you take a taxi or have a car)

6. is generally awful without a car -unless you live and work there, this is a big deal as you don‘t usually need a car in Vienna

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#175

Post by rsynnott »

criddell wrote: post #145
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s missing in most European places because there’s little need for it. When there is a need, Europe does pretty well. At least relative to the U.S. For example, Europe built the completely novel floodgates for Venice. It’s been very successful as far as I’m aware when it was heavily doubted before and throughout its development. On the other hand, the U.S. won’t even contemplate building something similar to protec…

> Europe built the completely novel floodgates for Venice That's wild! How do you convince people in Latvia or Norway that they should help pay for infrastructure like that in Italy? If Manhattan wants flood gates, NY will have to build them. At some point, they will probably have to because the cost of insurance will exceed the cost of the bonds needed to build.

Wait, doesn't the US Army Corps of Engineers do some of that sort of thing?

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#176

Post by rsynnott »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #125
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s missing in most European places because there’s little need for it. When there is a need, Europe does pretty well. At least relative to the U.S. For example, Europe built the completely novel floodgates for Venice. It’s been very successful as far as I’m aware when it was heavily doubted before and throughout its development. On the other hand, the U.S. won’t even contemplate building something similar to protec…

US infrastructure is increasingly terrible, true. But high-speed rail isn't probably what I'd point to as the most glaring problem. No doubt the TGV and Shinkansen are impressive, but the longest route in Japan (Tokyo-Aomori) is 675km compared to 4000km from Los Angeles to NYC (assuming you could it make a straight line, which you couldn't). Not to say I wouldn't be delighted to even have service from San Diego to Se…

The longest high-speed line is 2,760 km (in China; Beijing to Kunming). I actually don't think an LA to NYC line is _that_ absurd an idea; at 350km/h you'd do it in 11 hours (in practice somewhat more with stops). But east coast and west coast lines would be more plausible.

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#177

Post by amunozo »

apexalpha wrote: post #115
kubb wrote: post #15

Chongqing seems incredible on pictures and YouTube videos. No doubt it's a comfortable place to live for many people, and surely it isn't perfect, especially when it comes to things like air pollution. What amazes me is China's capacity to do development on a large scale, something that's completely missing in Europe. If we had efficient large-scale construction solved, we could really put a dent in the cost of livin…

The Netherlands grew by 1 million people between 2015 and 2025, roughly 6,5% increase in population. And (almost) everyone has a house. Except we don't build flats and suburban one-house-fits-all massive construction projects. We mostly do smallscale development times a 1000, in stead of one big one. We think it results in better cities. Though, it is true we should build even more.

The Netherlands has the biggest housing crisis of continental Europe, too.

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#178

Post by kubb »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #174
kubb wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so bad about it other than it's obviously not the cool, centrally located district? Well connected, long time residents who have access to flats in the inner city always feel superior to the people who move to the city after them, and have to live on the outskirts, that doesn't say much.

1. it‘s a concrete dessert 2. only every second U2 goes there 3. disregarding the doubled U2 wait times, it takes 40 minutes to get to Karlsplatz, 46 to Stephansplatz, 47 to the main train station, 53 to Westbahnhof, 54 to Landstrasse -those times get much worse if you don‘t live centrally in Seestadt. And those times are AWFUL for Vienna, anything over 30 minutes is awful. 4. The „See“ is actually a joke 5. if you l…

Yes, it would be better if they built it closer to the inner city, but there's not that much space there anymore. Cities have to be polycentric if they want to scale. I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to live there even if the people from Vienna proper won't be able to come visit.

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#179

Post by skippyboxedhero »

christkv wrote: post #95
xtracto wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western societies are blinded by the narrative their governments have fed them in the last 50 years: China Bad. But us in 3rd world countries have the ability to see both Western and Eastern societies' development and compare it ij a more unbiased way. Frankly the China bet looks more successful.

Are you willing to submit to my one party state and be ok with being disappeared if you have an unpopular opinion or being enslaved if you are the wrong minority?

If I told you that a government would exist in Africa that would eliminate poverty across most of the continent in three decades, would you think it strange if people thought this was a terrible thing?

Re: Chongqing, the Largest City – In Pictures

#180

Post by skippyboxedhero »

twodave wrote: post #97
xtracto wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western societies are blinded by the narrative their governments have fed them in the last 50 years: China Bad. But us in 3rd world countries have the ability to see both Western and Eastern societies' development and compare it ij a more unbiased way. Frankly the China bet looks more successful.

I don’t think anyone who understands geopolitics can agree with this take. China has been able to (for a time) sustain this kind of rapid industrialization because of globalization, a model of hyper-inflation and by taking advantage of wage inequality (i.e. paying their workers less) in order to dump goods into other countries’ markets. Take away globalization and China starves in the dark, because the part of their…

Hyperinflation? They have been exporting deflation. Wage inequality? It is a productivity inequality, relative to the US. The idea that everyone should just be paid the same wage is quite an odd inference when you start the comment with explaining how everyone else just doesn't understand the things you do.

China moved away from the export-led model of growth about ten years ago (the largest exporter of deflation today is Germany and has been for a number of years).

China does have too many people...there is nothing they can do about that and that will limit their living standards for a long time.

China's future is only bleak if you are unaware of their history. They were poorer than every country in Africa bar one a few decades ago, what they have done is still regarded as impossible even after they did it. It is like winning the lottery and then grousing because there is someone else richer than you (which, btw, most people probably would do).

China does not trade with the US intensively anymore. The US doesn't really make anything that anyone needs, and is a big export market but not at the margin anymore...total exports to the US are 3% of GDP. Their economy has been rebalancing for decades (again, proof that their leaders are just smarter...Trump is flailing around in the darkness with tariffs rather than actually being able to design good policy, China started this ten years ago and almost done already, it would make more sense to target the EU).

China has a long coastline, their primary products mainly come through the Malacca strait...again, it is hard to take someone seriously who starts talking about their expertise in geopolitics but doesn't know which trade routes China actually uses.

Post reply on HN