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The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

happiness.hks.harvard.edu

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Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#171

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

nikhizzle wrote: post #60
oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

I have a rough idea of my friend’s schedules, and I call them when I’m driving the kids around, or we text. Staying in constant contact with a few very close friends about my mental health has floated me through my mid-40s. A tip I got from a friend in his 60s was that even when you lose friends, life is great because you constantly have the opportunity to find new ones. I am in a new close friends renaissance in my…

I'd definitely be better off if I didn't take rejection personally

But it's hard for me to draw the line between being vulnerable and say, oversharing or dumping

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#172

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

NalNezumi wrote: post #104

The article already mention physical changes (car dependent suburbs, lack of 3rd places) and cultural shift (work as identity and nuclear family) but I think the two last things can be expanded to: we now have higher expectations of friends/people we meet. I recently moved back from Asia to Northern Europe, famous for being a place hard to make friends. I made a new friend, when I one day went to the local swimming p…

> What's there to be gained

What are you gaining then? It must be something right?

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#173

Post by Aurornis »

jjulius wrote: post #151
xiande04 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said all the things that you do while raising kids. What is it that you are doing differently that allows you to do all those things? Is it simply just a matter of hiring a cleaner? Because otherwise, as the father of a 1 and 5 year old, I completely agree with OP and find your story unbelievable. Like OP I work/exercise/do chores from 6 am to 10 pm. I'm on HN right now only because it's Saturday and I'm rel…

I'm similar to the person you are directly applying to. I also have a 5 and 3yo. Unlike the first OP, I don't get involved with the PTA and we don't really email with the school at all. I don't understand the emailing constantly with school thing, but to each their own and I'm sure there's a valid reason for those that do. We, like the person you're replying to, also pay for a cleaner, but that's for deep cleaning an…

> My wife and I share chores and swap out tasks evenly.

Having some give and take between parents makes such a big difference.

I think every time I’ve talked to friends who are new parents who complain about not having any free time ever, they eventually reveal some excessive rigidity in how they share the parenting load. Some parents try to have both parents involved in everything all the time. Some parents refuse to let the other parent handle a task like bedtime. Some parents let their kids get demanding about which parent does a task and they never push back on it. And of course some couples have one lazy parent who just doesn’t do the thing, leaving it to fall to the other parent.

There’s often a lightbulb moment when parents realize that there can be flexibility and trading back and forth between parents.

I once coached a young guy who was struggling at his job because his ~9 month old still wasn’t sleeping well. After some questions he revealed that both he and his wife were getting up with the baby every time and staying up together.

It took some convincing to break him of the notion that every interaction with the baby required two parents. Once they started staggering their sleep schedules and taking shifts during the night everything improved.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#174

Post by Aurornis »

h2zizzle wrote: post #129
mikemcquaid wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 2 young kids, run a widely used open source project and a startup, eat dinner with my kids 6/7 nights a week and do this. Here’s some ways how: My best friend comes over once a weekend and we watch the TV that my wife doesn’t want to. I participate in a sport (powerlifting) where I’ve made friends and there’s room to socialise while exercising. I chose to move back to my home town and also go to college there.…

>We pay for a cleaner. Buried lede.

I don’t pay for a cleaner and still have plenty of time for friends.

I think people overestimate how much time a cleaner saves. It’s helpful if you can afford it but IMO it’s not the life-changing improvement that you hear about on Reddit and other places. Someone who comes once per week to spend an hour or two cleaning could give an hour or two back (usually not 1:1 because they clean deeper than you would yourself most times to show that a good job was done). It’s not going to make the difference between having tons of time to spend with your friends if your scheduled is already packed though. That is, unless you plan to pay for a daily cleaner which is a different level of expense.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#175

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

dazzawazza wrote: post #28

I love heavy metal. So I go to metal pubs. I meet people, we talk and listen to each other. I've been talking to the same people for 30+ years but I meet new people EVERY time I venture out. I may see them again, I may not. Who cares? We lend PHYSICAL copies of albums, video games and books to one another. This increases trust, knowledge and love for one another. We share stories about all sorts of things. We create…

I never heard of such a thing as a metal pub. Not in small town USA anyway :(

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#176

Post by Aurornis »

gavinray wrote: post #91
oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

Was having kids worth this in your opinion -- genuine question?

Not OP but definitely worth it for me.

This is likely an unpopular opinion, but most of the parents I know do not have these extreme schedules and lack of flexibility that leave zero time for friends.

I do know some parents who fell into the parenting version of “the cult of busy”. I think it’s easy to stack your calendar with a million things and commitments and then wonder where your time went. When someone starts complaining about never having any free time but then in the same paragraph mentions optional commitments like PTA involvement taking up their free time, you have to read between the lines to see what’s really happening. If I didn’t have enough time to see friends for even 4 hours per week, dropping PTA involvement would be an easy target.

Honestly, the time crunch trap happens to people in all situations, kids or not. I did some volunteer mentoring for a while and it was shocking to hear so many 20-somethings without kids or relationships tell me how they never had time to see their friends any more between their 9-5 job and chores. When pressed for details they reveal that they’re doing things like grocery shopping every day, spending 2 hours making and cleaning up dinner every night, an hour at the gym, 2 hours catching up on their Netflix, and on and on.

Life is all about priorities. Honestly as a parent I don’t know how anyone could get less than 4 hours/week with other parent friends. We always meet up with parent friends at the park or do other activities together. If you’re strictly entertaining kids alone and you’re not in a remote location, it would be my top priority to make some other parent friends quickly.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#177

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

ryandrake wrote: post #168
NemoNobody wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you push your friend, specifically on the trans argument, you might learn something about him. I'm not sure how anyone could believe immigrants are intrinsically bad without racism tbh.

I've found it's generally not worth it to push the discussion when it comes to politics. People will just dig in and there goes the friendship. I'm (apparently, or so I'm told) a flaming lefty lib, who recently moved out of the Bay Area to a very "red" part of California. If I limited my friends to only people like me politically, I'd have to be a hermit. I basically take it as given that any new person I strike up a…

That must be where we differ. I don't want friends who vote for Republicans. I am trans so I have less choice. It's my head on the chopping block once they get bored of hurting immigrants

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#178

Post by codr7 »

oddthink wrote: post #136
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 10 PM I walk to the local and have three pints. The woman is not working and socializes during the day with other moms.

I mean, I could walk down to a bar at 10pm, if I wanted to. I live in a city. But if I'm getting up at 6:30, I don't think I want a pint let alone three that late. Plus, I'd still have two kids up, asking me to extend the wifi because they're not done with English yet or to help scan a page for math. I'm not going to just leave that to my partner. Even the more traditional pint-after-work would leave me coming home t…

When did staying at home and taking care of house/children become such a terrible punishment?

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#180

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

scarface_74 wrote: post #120
NemoNobody wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you push your friend, specifically on the trans argument, you might learn something about him. I'm not sure how anyone could believe immigrants are intrinsically bad without racism tbh.

Illegal immigration is what he is opposed to. It’s relatively easy for someone to understand just by taking a slight step back out of their world view why a man may be attracted to another man or a woman may be a attracted to another woman or someone may be attracted to both sexes. But trans goes against everything they know about science. And even for those who are very much “let you do you” thinks it’s a bridge too…

Are you okay with me living as a woman as long as I promise not to play any professional sports? :P
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