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Native visionOS platform support

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Re: Native visionOS platform support

#171

Post by arghwhat »

JeremyNT wrote: post #151
arjonagelhout wrote: post #147

This indicates to me that the Apple Vision and visionOS product line and OS are not canceled internally and that Apple is still committed to its future. While the Apple Vision Pro itself is not a good or successful product, progress in display technology will enable Apple to build a more attractive consumer product, in the form of light, comfortable and unobtrusive AR glasses. In this line of thinking — not just focu…

Can you read that much into it? It seems equally possible that they're beginning to wind things down and they're just releasing what they've got to the public now.

Official upstreaming efforts are a significant investment even if they have internal PoCs. You can't just "release what you've got".

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#172

Post by zitterbewegung »

karmakaze wrote: post #170

The interesting thing here is that Apple finally learned that games matter. Of course they go about it in the same "we're never wrong" attitude by never admitting it, like how their mice don't have two physical buttons to stay true to "a mouse should have one button" from the original Mac. They're learning though, it was voluntary unlike USB-C on their phones/tablets.

I think that when Apple pivoted to "Apple Silicon" or basically the M series chips they realized that they should pivot to video games also. Once iOS supported an App Store it came out of the gates organically with people making video games for the platform . Unfortunately they never really followed through with helping game developers or any meaningful QC regarding monetization so you have a lot of good games and a whole lot of bad games. Also, Warframe when they made a switch port they figured out they could make an iOS port which really caught on in Japan.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#173

Post by wat10000 »

skeptrune wrote: post #36
andsoitis wrote: post #27

Godot already supports VR via OpenXR. OpenXR is the Khronos-maintained industry standard for VR/AR devices—supported by SteamVR, Oculus, Vive, Pico, Windows Mixed Reality, Quest. Notably absent is visionOS / Vision Pro. I would insist Apple conforms to the industry standard. More scalable, open.

> The visionOS platform doesn't have OpenGL support, as it's not supported by visionOS. Hell would freeze over before Apple conformed and contributed to an existing open standard. They even failed to follow the Godot contribution guide for the PR itself.

POSIX? C++? HTML? USB? There are plenty of existing open standards that Apple conforms and contributes to.

When open source types complain about this, I always enjoy the irony that macOS is POSIX compliant while Linux is not.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#174

Post by pjmlp »

moron4hire wrote: post #153
pjmlp wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite certain the folks selling iOS games see it otherwise.

Most of those games could be written to run on a toaster. Most of those games are written by people who use Unity, so they don't really care about the underlying system and may not even understand what Metal is at all.

Such are the wonders of middleware, standards aren't really needed.

By the way, I am still waiting to see those toaster like games on WebGL 2.0.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#175

Post by bathtub365 »

threeseed wrote: post #160
jonplackett wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sad but true. I was so excited about the Vision and desperate to get one. Finally my company has bought one for testing and I’m honestly not sure what to even use it for. Maybe a big screen Mac? Is that it? I think Apple has fallen into the same dead end they did with Apple TV: no controller = no games. Both Apple TV and Vision Pro could have been filled with games from indie devs. But it’s impossible to play…

> no controller = no games. Bundling a controller would increase the cost for everyone to satisfy a minority of gamers. So instead they support all PS5, Xbox, BT etc controllers.

Those aren’t VR controllers and no one is using them.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#176

Post by dagmx »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #167
dagmx wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you contributed to Godot yourself or made something of note with it? Multiple developers are actively asking for visionOS support as people on the Godot team have mentioned. Why should your distaste for a platform preclude them from having platform support that would benefit the things they want to build? Beyond that, have you even looked at the PR here to see what your supposed distraction would be? Most of the…

> Why should your distaste for a platform preclude them from having platform support that would benefit the things they want to build? They answered this in their initial comment: > If you officially support visionOS, it now requires all product and engineering innovation to take it into account, slowing down velocity for very little gain, if any.

That’s not really an answer though, anymore than any other platform. I’m not asking why they don’t want it supported, I’m asking why their distaste should overrule everyone else who does.

Just because this one very angry person doesn’t want this platform supported, doesn’t mean others don’t. You could argue the exact same thing in reverse for any other platform that is niche for someone else.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#177

Post by crowcroft »

arjonagelhout wrote: post #147

This indicates to me that the Apple Vision and visionOS product line and OS are not canceled internally and that Apple is still committed to its future. While the Apple Vision Pro itself is not a good or successful product, progress in display technology will enable Apple to build a more attractive consumer product, in the form of light, comfortable and unobtrusive AR glasses. In this line of thinking — not just focu…

I believe there's going to be a lot more investment if no other reason than Tim Cook seems to care deeply about it (and beating Zuckerberg).

Strategically it make sense. The only real threat to the iPhone which Apple makes all their money from, is a new form factor that replaces phones. Maybe glasses/goggles will never replace phones, but spending billions a year to make sure that you win the glasses market just in case they do is very cheap insurance.

https://futurism.com/tim-cook-obsession-ar-glasses

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#178

Post by dagmx »

traverseda wrote: post #165
dagmx wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people making the latter comments are ignoring the contents of this PR however, and showing a lack of understanding of the engine itself in the process. You cannot build this as an extension. It’s a different OS and Godot needs it to be done this way, as many people in the PR have commented as well. An extension would not cover it, and people suggesting that are probably used to the PC VR development model where…

>You cannot build this as an extension. It’s a different OS and Godot needs it to be done this way, How does support for platforms like the nintendo switch work?

Godot outline it here https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/tutorials/platform/co...

But there are essentially third party forks of the engine with platform support added in.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#179

Post by ghc »

jonplackett wrote: post #137
elAhmo wrote: post #106

Both users of visionOS are happy about this announcement.

This is sad but true. I was so excited about the Vision and desperate to get one. Finally my company has bought one for testing and I’m honestly not sure what to even use it for. Maybe a big screen Mac? Is that it? I think Apple has fallen into the same dead end they did with Apple TV: no controller = no games. Both Apple TV and Vision Pro could have been filled with games from indie devs. But it’s impossible to play…

I'm not really sure why anyone would want to use an Apple TV for games, instead of a dedicated console. AFAICT the killer app for Apple TV is airplay. I haven't seen a co-working space conference room TV without an Apple TV attached for years.

I mean, I guess privacy is the other feature. I use an AppleTV at home to bypass all the smart TV nonsense. I know Apple can't be trusted, but I trust it more than a TV manufacturer who tries to shove ads down my throat the moment I connect their TV to the internet.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#180

Post by _mlbt »

arjonagelhout wrote: post #147

This indicates to me that the Apple Vision and visionOS product line and OS are not canceled internally and that Apple is still committed to its future. While the Apple Vision Pro itself is not a good or successful product, progress in display technology will enable Apple to build a more attractive consumer product, in the form of light, comfortable and unobtrusive AR glasses. In this line of thinking — not just focu…

The core idea is solid. At this point it just needs to be lighter, have better battery, and a much lower price. With further refinement and increased economies of scale these issues could potentially be fixed.

Nearly all of the reviews I’ve read say that it’s a good user experience overall, but it’s not worth the price.

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