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A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

mattgiustwilliamson.substack.com

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Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#171

Post by LikeAnElephant »

9rx wrote: post #159
LikeAnElephant wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, build a business that customers are willing to pay for… Spend less than you earn. Maybe get an SMB loan if the numbers work. This approach is older than the tech industry.

Trouble is that there isn't much the consumer is willing to pay for anymore. They've become accustomed to devices like their phone where a single purchase fulfills an endless number of functions. The thought of buying much more is becoming a foreign concept. To complicate matters: For what they are not buying, they aren't saving up the money ready to deploy when something compelling does come around. They've decided…

I respectfully disagree that there’s no business opportunity that people are willing to pay for.

If your only target are developers or the tech industry, maybe, but there’s a whole world of non technical business people with problems that have extremely easy (and boring) technical solutions.

I’ve recently signed up my third customer paying $49/mo with a simple CRUD app. No targeted ads or landing pages. I literally walked into offices in my town and asked what the most annoying part of their job is and I made a prototype. They signed a 6 month commitment.

They’re amazed at my “computer skills” only because they don’t know any better.

Not saying I’ll become insanely rich, but my goal is a reasonable living ($200-$300k) within 5 years.

All this to say I think the opportunities in this market are there, but they look different.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#172

Post by zwnow »

jpfr wrote: post #138
zwnow wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also connected to so much bureaucracy that you almost need to hire someone for that alone, because you wont have as much time for your actual business. Founding a company in Germany is so much unnecessary paperwork its crazy. Single handedly the only reason I will never try it in my home country.

I just founded in Germany. The paperwork is … okay. Not much more crazy than tax returns or internal accounting you need to do in any jurisdiction. But yes, running any organization is a lot of work.

Tax returns is once a year, which is okay. I see my bosses having to do paperwork every week...

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#173

Post by codethief »

hobofan wrote: post #156
toomuchtodo wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an opportunity to streamline the paperwork mentioned to reduce friction for founding in Germany?

There are already services that do that, e.g. firma.de[0] But in general, not really. I also just founded a GmbH in Germany, and the paperwork really isn't that crazy, and for the more complicated parts you'll generally will want to have a tax advisor you are going to have a long-term relationship with (rather than a one-off founding service). I considered using a founding service, but ultimately, most of the "hard p…

Having gone through the process of incorporation myself, I agree with everything you said: Yes, there is some paperwork you'll have to take care of and a bit of a learning curve to everything but not outrageously so. It can all be done within ~2 weeks (including roundtrip times for mail). Yes, that's still a lot more than it'll take you in e.g. Estonia (where you can do everything online in a few minutes from what I've been told) but it really would be the least of my worries, compared to actually running the company.

That being said, I do think the process could be simplified drastically. Not necessarily by getting rid of the notary requirement but 1) through digitalization and 2) by streamlining (possibly centralizing) the whole back and forth between notary (official incorporation & signing of articles of incorporation), bank (getting a business account + obtaining proof you actually put the money in that account that you're claiming to have during incorporation), local court (registering the company, including articles of incorporation), tax authorities (getting a tax ID and sales tax ID), local authorities (getting a business permit), local chamber of commerce (paying dues for mandatory membership), Federal Gazette / federal company register (submitting your initial balance sheet).

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#174

Post by 9rx »

LikeAnElephant wrote: post #171
9rx wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trouble is that there isn't much the consumer is willing to pay for anymore. They've become accustomed to devices like their phone where a single purchase fulfills an endless number of functions. The thought of buying much more is becoming a foreign concept. To complicate matters: For what they are not buying, they aren't saving up the money ready to deploy when something compelling does come around. They've decided…

I respectfully disagree that there’s no business opportunity that people are willing to pay for. If your only target are developers or the tech industry, maybe, but there’s a whole world of non technical business people with problems that have extremely easy (and boring) technical solutions. I’ve recently signed up my third customer paying $49/mo with a simple CRUD app. No targeted ads or landing pages. I literally w…

> I literally walked into offices in my town and asked what the most annoying part of their job is and I made a prototype.

Consumers don't have offices. You are looking at a business-to-business transaction, which is where we said there is still opportunity, in large part thanks to those collecting angel money.

If you are going to disagree, surely you can provide an example of where you have sold to the consumer? Affirming that you could only find opportunity selling to other businesses too makes it seem like you do agree.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#175

Post by zwnow »

Bewelge wrote: post #132
zwnow wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also connected to so much bureaucracy that you almost need to hire someone for that alone, because you wont have as much time for your actual business. Founding a company in Germany is so much unnecessary paperwork its crazy. Single handedly the only reason I will never try it in my home country.

I agree that the process is unnecessarily complex, but I also think hiring someone for that would be the wise choice in most places anyway. And even in Germany hiring someone for that would probably amount to paying 500-1000€ for the whole registration of the company instead of doing everything yourself and only paying the 100-200€ notary fees. It's not as bad as you might think. > I will never try it in my home coun…

I never thought about founding my own company while living in Germany. I hate this countries bureaucracy to the core. If I ever wanted to found one, I'd first move out of Germany.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#176

Post by the_clarence »

zwnow wrote: post #172
jpfr wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just founded in Germany. The paperwork is … okay. Not much more crazy than tax returns or internal accounting you need to do in any jurisdiction. But yes, running any organization is a lot of work.

Tax returns is once a year, which is okay. I see my bosses having to do paperwork every week...

I have an LLC in the US and have to deal with tax stuff all the freaking time

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#177

Post by nullderef »

summarity wrote: post #9

Here's a model that exists in Germany, which I like: You can present a business plan to the state's investment bank and apply for several financial aides, including: * 1.5 years of universal basic income for you plus up to 2 other people. It's a tiny amount of money, but the point is to free you up to invest your actual time an money into the business. You do not have to pay this back. * up to 20k EUR in "consulting…

How can I learn more about this? Is it the EXIST program?

I looked into programs like this but they seemed to require so much bureaucracy that I'd be better off without them :(

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#178

Post by whilenot-dev »

9rx wrote: post #159
LikeAnElephant wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, build a business that customers are willing to pay for… Spend less than you earn. Maybe get an SMB loan if the numbers work. This approach is older than the tech industry.

Trouble is that there isn't much the consumer is willing to pay for anymore. They've become accustomed to devices like their phone where a single purchase fulfills an endless number of functions. The thought of buying much more is becoming a foreign concept. To complicate matters: For what they are not buying, they aren't saving up the money ready to deploy when something compelling does come around. They've decided…

B2C isn't the only business model, businesses and governments pay for a ton of stuff.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#179

Post by 9rx »

Oras wrote: post #47
s_dev wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because gold will appreciate reliably to an extent but a company can appreciate in value far exceeding what gold can -- that's the risk/reward trade off.

The chances of a startup failing is way higher than gold degrading in price.

Hence why the potential upset of a business is so much higher. Risk vs. reward, as usual.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#180

Post by summarity »

nullderef wrote: post #177
summarity wrote: post #9

Here's a model that exists in Germany, which I like: You can present a business plan to the state's investment bank and apply for several financial aides, including: * 1.5 years of universal basic income for you plus up to 2 other people. It's a tiny amount of money, but the point is to free you up to invest your actual time an money into the business. You do not have to pay this back. * up to 20k EUR in "consulting…

How can I learn more about this? Is it the EXIST program? I looked into programs like this but they seemed to require so much bureaucracy that I'd be better off without them :(

I posted a bunch of links further downthread. There are also likely non-profit/public institution in your state that will help you navigate this. Of course they can't write the business plan for you :)
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