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Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

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171–180 of 251 posts

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#171
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had no issue with Wifi on multiple occasions. Works just fine nowadays without any Linux compatibility add-on. Wifi not being available isn't the fault of FreeBSD. If vendors actually gave open sourced drivers to their products and not locked behind a proprietary binary blob then we would be in a completely different world. I can recall when WiFi on Linux was pretty much non-existent until deals were made back…

> Wifi not being available isn't the fault of FreeBSD. No. Just because it's available doesn't mean it's good . Until FreeBSD supports modern Wifi (4/5, i.e 802.11n/ac) then you're just ticking the box to say you've got it, but Linux actually supports these modern network setups and FreeBSD does not. There is no debating this at this point in time. And to be clear, I'm referencing wifibox ( https://github.com/pgj/fre…

Wifi vendors supply drivers for Linux. They do not supply drivers for FreeBSD. It is not FreeBSD's fault.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#172
post #25

> ZFS is more efficient on FreeBSD (Insert Source) FreeBSD and Linux share the same ZFS codebase, openzfs. FreeBSD had its own zfs implementation but they had to drop it becayse they couldn't keep up with openzfs.

But Linux makes it a faff because the license is incompatible so you have to run it as a 3rd party module and the kernel devs regularly break it. With FreeBSD it’s already there and you know it will work.

That's only partially true.

The license is "compatible" enough to be shipped by distributions rather than kernel.

AFAIK, the thing is: no one has seriously decided to test the license compatibility (as in, test it in court) and everybody's essentially scared of Oracle dragging them through endless legal litigation. Oracle owns most/all the IP that came from Sun Microsystems and while ZFS/OpenZFS is CDDL licensed... Who wants to spend millions in legal fees to find out?

Canonical did (still does?) ship OpenZFS with Ubuntu but maybe they're not big enough for Oracle to go after them (who knows? the lawnmower works in misterious ways).

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#173
post #12

If systemd is the reason, there are several good distros without systemd (I run Void Linux in particular). If "kubesomething" is the reason, there's no requirement to use it. I think most people don't run it on their home servers. If containers are the reason, then again, they are not a requirement. But they are pretty similar to BSD's jails. I don't think they are particularly complex. FreeBSD has a number of strong…

> If systemd is the reason, there are several good distros without systemd (I run Void Linux in particular).

There are people in the FreeBSD camp that actually do advocate for something like systemd in FreeBSD. See "The Tragedy of systemd": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#174
post #86
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the usual Linux hobgoblins listed above are a red herring here, to my mind. Absolutely > If containers are the reason, then again, they are not a requirement. But they are pretty similar to BSD's jails. I don't think they are particularly complex. The only point I agree with the author is that many things are shipped to be used with docker when they don't need to be, which creates a needless dependency.

I have "reversed engineered" dockerfiles in order to avoid containers. Any software should be installable without docker, it just takes more knowledge and time. Also sometimes it doesn't, there is a binary (like with go and rust and .net) or other times the long route is pip or apt and some conf fiddling. Databases are the worse part maybe but once you get it is more control for you and what you want to do with your…

Well, containers have some other uses cases. Running old software not supported by latest Linux distros is one of them. MySQL 5.7 series cannot be installed on latest Linuxes cleanly for quite a while now. Containers are godsend for situations like this.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#175
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wifi not being available isn't the fault of FreeBSD. No. Just because it's available doesn't mean it's good . Until FreeBSD supports modern Wifi (4/5, i.e 802.11n/ac) then you're just ticking the box to say you've got it, but Linux actually supports these modern network setups and FreeBSD does not. There is no debating this at this point in time. And to be clear, I'm referencing wifibox ( https://github.com/pgj/fre…

Wifi vendors supply drivers for Linux. They do not supply drivers for FreeBSD. It is not FreeBSD's fault.

It does not matter: FreeBSD has languished in development for wifi drivers for years now.

FreeBSD does not have modern wifi, it is a simple statement.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#176
post #6

Just another “I don’t like systemd and refuse to understand it” rant. I can’t think of any change that has improved my Linux sysadmin experience more than the move to systemd. Is it complicated? Perhaps it is. But this FUD about it being resource intensive or unreliable or difficult to use is complete nonsense. And on top of that systemd isn’t even “Linux.” Plenty of popular production-ready distros like Alpine Linux…

systemd is indeed awesome. i'd rather kms than go back to maintaining init.d scripts.

The classic init.d scripts with start/stop functions and pidfiles are awful indeed. I cannot comprehend why they didn't use the openrc approach, which actually looks a lot like systemd, except it's a bunch of shell variables. The root problem is programs that insist on daemonizing themselves. Systemd solves this with the brute force of cgroups.

The way I see it, other init systems had 20 years to come up with a reliable model, but they didn't, and as is usual in FOSS, whoever actually writes the damn thing, decides how it looks.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#177
post #161

Thought I agree with points of an author saying that it is wasteful to run 10 SQLs to run ten applications, I am not SYS admin and I do not want to spend few hours every week upgrading my software. With docker you do 'docker compose pull; docker compose up' and you done. You can do that via cron in every dir with your compose file and you are done. In fact I think even that thing is still to complicated. We need one-…

What makes you think you have to spend "a few hours every week" to keep a FreeBSD setup up and running? I have pretty much every server running from web server to mail server and I don't spend "a few hours" per YEAR to keep it running. about once a week I run a pkg update, pkg upgrade and service x reload in each jail to update the software and 99.9% of the time it works smoothly.It really doesn't get much simpler th…

I think you reading to much into my comment. I did not meant that specifically FreeBsd needs an extra attention.

What I meant is that dockerizing your applications (which author of article seems to have a problem with) is easier from that point of view. There is no need to provide a package for each distribution or OS you want to support. You can bundle all the necessary dependencies if there are any (like i.e. databases which author provide as an example of unnecessary redundancy). There are solutions for web managing docker containers and stacks like Portainer, Taisun, Yacht and probably more I am not aware of. You have Watchtower and Diun for update notifications. So it is simpler for developers and partially for an user.

Maybe there are similar solutions for FreeBsd package manager, but this is only for FreeBsd. With docker it should work on every environment that can run docker. So again it is simpler.

You can run your services without docker and sometimes it is easier without it (i.e. running DLNA server) still, I would not want to run my email server as nginx/postfix/dovecot/sogo/mysql as separate services that I need to separately install, configure and update. There are dockerized solutions for that that exists already that you can start and run with docker + some DNS config. It is just easier.

If you are fine with your stack on FreeBsd it is totally fine, but there is a reason why less, or non-technical people are running commercial NAS devices like Synology. Because it is easier. And there is a reason why non-technical people are using Google Drive and iCloud for their needs like files sync, backups and email instead of running their own mail server and NAS: because it is easier.

So I do not have anything against FreeBsd and their native packages. But you wrote yourself:

> about once a week I run a pkg update, pkg upgrade and service x reload in each jail to update the software and 99.9% of the time it works smoothly. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.

Yes it does: web or phone app management. Why you have an app for every silly smart devices people are buying (like i.e. smart fridge or smart dishwasher)? Because it is easier for ordinary people. Samsung and LG do not make CLI for those to manage those devices via SSH. Maybe it would be even easier, once you are familiar with that, but people are not. Try to explain your hairdresser or plumber what is FreeBsd, pkg, jails and services.

> This could also be done with cron like in your example, but I don't think automating updates is such a great idea. I think updates should be monitored.

Which is exactly why I wrote that I, personally, do not want to spend few hours every week to upgrade and monitor upgrade process of all my devices. Especially since those are used by my family and I do not want to update them during a day, because they will be complaining that they can't use something. And I do not want to do that at night because I want to sleep. I you have nice solution for running 10 or 20 applications on FreeBsd, with very easy and quick update and backup process for them, please write about it. My solution takes about 2 hours every day for 4 devices and about 6 hours of update and backup - every day. But sending about of 2TB of data backups (even incremental) must take some time.

So, again, I agree with an author with few points but in an essence, I do not agree. I does not matter if you use FreeBsd, or Ubuntu or Debian or UnRaid for your self hosting needs. We need simpler solutions for self hosting for ordinary people.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#178
post #12

If systemd is the reason, there are several good distros without systemd (I run Void Linux in particular). If "kubesomething" is the reason, there's no requirement to use it. I think most people don't run it on their home servers. If containers are the reason, then again, they are not a requirement. But they are pretty similar to BSD's jails. I don't think they are particularly complex. FreeBSD has a number of strong…

Linux has ZFS too. FreeBSD actually switched over to using the Linux implementation a few years ago.

Linux is just a kernel and ZFS isn't in there.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#179
post #64
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, systemd is far better and more reliable than anything else, especially if you need complex logic The author is talking about home servers that do not need the complex logic.

Basic systemd is really not that complex.

My point is that the need for complex logic (see the parent comment I quoted) is not a reason to use Systemd for a home server.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#180

For some reason the silverbullet link in the website is broken if I copy it or just click it. But typing the exact same thing works.

The article link is wrong. https://siliverbullet.md/ It should be below (without the extra “i”): https://silverbullet.md/

Oh, I didn't see the typo. Thanks!
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