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A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

theguardian.com

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Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#171

Post by ANewFormation »

janderson215 wrote: post #132
bufferoverflow wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what he asked you. You answered some other question.

The question that was asked was not to confirm what GP said, it was combative to try to position GP as a bad person. Basically the equivalent of saying “so you’re saying you would be okay killing Jews if you lived in Nazi Germany.” GP answered to clarify their position and answered the only question that should have been asked, the equivalent of, “if during my childhood I was indoctrinated by the Hitler Youth program…

I think you may have misread his post. He was not speaking of being born and raised in an area but his thought experiment was swapping out people explicitly from different cultures, and seeing at what percent the 'host' cultures would change.

He believes people would simply change their values, but I think this is an incorrect assumption, as the example should make obvious.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#172

Post by ANewFormation »

bsoles wrote: post #125
ANewFormation wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so if you went to Saudi Arabia you'd pretend to be down with executing people for apostasy? Obviously it's an extreme example but many of the norms of a Western mindset would be no less offensive to billions of people in this world. What bias of moderation exists is that you probably wouldn't migrate to Saudi Arabia unless you were already mostly ok with their values. And if e.g. economic opportunity drove you th…

> What bias of moderation exists is that you probably wouldn't migrate to Saudi Arabia unless you were already mostly ok with their values... you'd probably keep your opinions to yourself, but it's unlikely your values would fundamentally change. Then, how do you explain, for example some people who migrates to France from a majority Muslim country and decides all French people are infidels and deserve death? Similar…

You ellipsed out the answer - economic opportunity.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#173

Post by rat87 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #110
decimalenough wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people in Europe absolutely have a problem with legal immigration, with asylum seekers particularly maligned. Specifically, the rise of far-right parties in Scandinavia, Germany and France is very much a reaction to legal immigration from Arab and African countries. The argument is not "they're stealing our jobs", but "they're abusing our welfare benefits, driving up crime and raping our women".

1) Not all asylum seekers are legal immigrants. Legal means you have obtained an entry visa before crossing the border. 2) Even huge amounts of legal asylum seekers can end up straining the already thin welfare state, so it's only normal that taxpayers paying for the welfare state, ask their politicians "where are you goanna house all these newly arrived asylum seekers when even citizens and taxpayers are struggling…

1) no it means legally seeking asylum under the legal process

2) Maybe build more housing? Maybe hire some of the new immigrants to build more housing. They're not unvetted because they are going through a vetting process. Statistically we know most aren't criminals.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#174

Post by absolutelastone »

rat87 wrote: post #170
absolutelastone wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking words out of context generally never forms the basis of a good argument. For example here you cropped out the commission of immigration fraud, which leads me to doubt you accurately answered my question. In the US at least, such behavior can lead to punishments well beyond denial of the application. Are you saying in Europe it is fair play? Either way of course the point relevant to the thread is whether peopl…

Fraud is lying Having your amnesty application rejected (whether the court judged fairly or too harshly) is not in any way or shape fraud. Law is complex and many refugees and asylum seekers don't fully understand the law. Even hoping it applies to you optimistically would not be fraud. Fraud is only when you purposely lie to try to gain the right to stay here. Such things happen but not nearly as often as anti immig…

Indeed fraud certainly is lying. And sure they might also be rejected for other reasons like being a convicted criminal. In the US we also have "willful misrepresentation", which I will count with fraud informally. But my comment, again, specified economic migrants. They know they are economic migrants. The fraud is to claim otherwise on one's application in the name of "hoping optimistically" that this other story will suffice. It sure is hard to maintain focus on this point.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#175

Post by rat87 »

absolutelastone wrote: post #174
rat87 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fraud is lying Having your amnesty application rejected (whether the court judged fairly or too harshly) is not in any way or shape fraud. Law is complex and many refugees and asylum seekers don't fully understand the law. Even hoping it applies to you optimistically would not be fraud. Fraud is only when you purposely lie to try to gain the right to stay here. Such things happen but not nearly as often as anti immig…

Indeed fraud certainly is lying. And sure they might also be rejected for other reasons like being a convicted criminal. In the US we also have "willful misrepresentation", which I will count with fraud informally. But my comment, again, specified economic migrants. They know they are economic migrants. The fraud is to claim otherwise on one's application in the name of "hoping optimistically" that this other story w…

The vast majority of cases are not declined for fraud/wilful misrepresentation. They're declined because they don't meet standards for asylum (or at times because the judges are being pushed to deny regardless of what the law says or means) or because they didn't have proper representation or enough time to prepare and have to face a broken immigration system. Hell we don't even have enough interpreters. Many of those claiming asylum speak less common languages like Mayan languages

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#176

Post by absolutelastone »

rat87 wrote: post #175
absolutelastone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed fraud certainly is lying. And sure they might also be rejected for other reasons like being a convicted criminal. In the US we also have "willful misrepresentation", which I will count with fraud informally. But my comment, again, specified economic migrants. They know they are economic migrants. The fraud is to claim otherwise on one's application in the name of "hoping optimistically" that this other story w…

The vast majority of cases are not declined for fraud/wilful misrepresentation. They're declined because they don't meet standards for asylum (or at times because the judges are being pushed to deny regardless of what the law says or means) or because they didn't have proper representation or enough time to prepare and have to face a broken immigration system. Hell we don't even have enough interpreters. Many of thos…

Funny how you don't often hear this kind of argument made for estimating the prevalence of tax fraud. And there the risk vs reward calculation is much worse. I would trust more common sense arguments. People who respond to economic incentives are economically motivated.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#177

Post by amanaplanacanal »

mantas wrote: post #143
guappa wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? A thug might occasionally steal your wallet. Rich criminals make sure you will not get cure for whatever illness you will surely get as you get older.

A thug may kill you and it won’t matter much what illness you’ll get at old age.

You are far more likely to be killed by a citizen than an illegal alien, and even that chance is tiny compared to an automobile death. You've been lied to by people trying to manipulate you for their own political power. Don't get suckered by then. They are not your friend.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#178

Post by amanaplanacanal »

tomp wrote: post #119
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They always say that, until you talk about legalizing more immigration, then you find out that no, they don't want any more immigration period.

I don’t think that anyone minds immigration of highly educated people from advanced civilized countries that have aligned values and respect local cultures. But illegal and legal immigrants from other countries mainly consume taxpayer resources and spread crime and violence.

That is absolutely not true. Whoever you heard that from is lying to you. Local citizens cause way more crime than immigrants. Maybe think about where you are getting your news from, because it is bullshit.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#179

Post by tomp »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #178
tomp wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that anyone minds immigration of highly educated people from advanced civilized countries that have aligned values and respect local cultures. But illegal and legal immigrants from other countries mainly consume taxpayer resources and spread crime and violence.

That is absolutely not true. Whoever you heard that from is lying to you. Local citizens cause way more crime than immigrants. Maybe think about where you are getting your news from, because it is bullshit.

Of course they do, because there’s way more local citizens than immigrants.

But non-Western immigrants are more likely to commit crimes (i.e. on a per-capita basis).

This blog post goes into some detail, and also adjusts by sex & age (also important!).

https://inquisitivebird.xyz/p/the-effects-of-immigration-in-...

You can easily confirm the basic “Danish origin vs non-Western immigrants” statistics by doing simple math from official sources.

https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/sociale-forhold/krimin...

Persons of Danish origin commit 75% of crime yet represent 84% of the population. Immigrants are only 16% of population yet commit 25% of crime.

Or is official Danish statistics lying?

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