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If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

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Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#171

Post by thaumasiotes »

0_____0 wrote: post #158
throwaway2037 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Paris downtown Where is downtown Paris? 1/2/3 arrondissement? I never heard the term used for Paris. Mostly, it is used to describe the Wall Street area of Manhattan (NYC) as the island is relatively north-south and Wall Street is on the southern end.

I notice that non US English-speaking tend to use the term CBD instead of downtown, my assumption is that it is because of the NYC thing you mention

I don't think there's any association with New York. etymonline claims that "downtown" originally refers to the idea that the suburbs are at a higher elevation than the city proper. I don't know how much stock I'd put in that, but I trust it more than someone's random intuition about the geography of New York.

( https://www.etymonline.com/word/downtown : "The notion is originally literal, of suburbs built on heights around a city." )

It's the only available word for the concept in American English. I wouldn't recommend saying CBD; that would refer to cannabidiol or to marijuana in general.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#172

Post by 0_____0 »

Symbiote wrote: post #168
0_____0 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice that non US English-speaking tend to use the term CBD instead of downtown, my assumption is that it is because of the NYC thing you mention

British people would say city centre or town centre. Australians are the ones who say CBD.

I've seen it in Canada, NZ and India as well. Def not AU specific.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#173

Post by 0_____0 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #171
0_____0 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice that non US English-speaking tend to use the term CBD instead of downtown, my assumption is that it is because of the NYC thing you mention

I don't think there's any association with New York. etymonline claims that "downtown" originally refers to the idea that the suburbs are at a higher elevation than the city proper. I don't know how much stock I'd put in that, but I trust it more than someone's random intuition about the geography of New York. ( https://www.etymonline.com/word/downtown : "The notion is originally literal, of suburbs built on heights…

Reading more about it, accounts vary. There are historians who posit it was in fact inspired by Manhattan, or maybe Boston, but it's not cut and dry.

Edit forgot link: https://downtownny.com/news/where-did-downtown-come-from/

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#174

Post by thaumasiotes »

0_____0 wrote: post #173
thaumasiotes wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any association with New York. etymonline claims that "downtown" originally refers to the idea that the suburbs are at a higher elevation than the city proper. I don't know how much stock I'd put in that, but I trust it more than someone's random intuition about the geography of New York. ( https://www.etymonline.com/word/downtown : "The notion is originally literal, of suburbs built on heights…

Reading more about it, accounts vary. There are historians who posit it was in fact inspired by Manhattan, or maybe Boston, but it's not cut and dry. Edit forgot link: https://downtownny.com/news/where-did-downtown-come-from/

I'm not especially impressed by the argument "if we assume it came from Manhattan, then we can know it came from Manhattan":

> Let’s suppose that Fosdick, incoherent from distress, forgot to include the words “to the” between “down” and “town” when describing the direction in which people were fleeing. With this in mind, we can assume that Lower Manhattan is in fact the original “downtown,” as posited by Schwarzer, and that the possible Bostonian origin of the word is simply a misunderstanding.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#175

Post by Gareth321 »

walrus01 wrote: post #166
DannyBee wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And be careful of the minimum bend radius." The minimum bend radius of any good fiber is way less than cat6 at this point. G.657A1/B1 = 10mm G.657A2/B2 = 7.5mm G.657A3/B3= 2.5mm CAT6 = 25mm Flexible cat6 = 15mm. Fiber surpassed copper for flexibility almost 2 decades ago (G.657 was introduced in 2006, but let's call it 5 years before all forms became common). Even G.652 was only 25mm and standardized in 1984.

for an example of how good modern g.657 bend loss insensitive fiber is, for ftth applications and drop/last hundred meters, here's an example of it being abused with a staple gun and the resulting loss in dB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4wzJSInvww the above is from 12 years ago I've seen some g.657.b3 patch cords and work done for FTTH installs that are absolutely atrocious and yet continue to function properly.

This is proprietary technology and is definitely NOT representative of normal fibre cables. I know because I had had to deal with contractors doing exactly this, which crushed the cables we ran. There are many things which could be better if we were willing to pay higher prices for them. At the end of the day, cheap and good enough usually wins.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#178

Post by fleventynine »

eqvinox wrote: post #62
fleventynine wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples to oranges. SR is for short runs inside a building. LR is for sending signals across a city. For short runs inside a building, the transceiver prices are much more comparable. Compare https://www.fs.com/products/251819.html?now_cid=4089 to https://www.fs.com/products/282973.html?now_cid=4089

SR is for when you accidentally installed MMF really. Except, no, you can run (single lambda, not muxed) LR transceivers on MMF, it's out if spec but you actually get around +20% range before hitting dispersion limits. I'll also note SR ranges are not in fact long enough for larger buildings. And this gets worse with higher speeds, since modal dispersion is a bandwidth problem, not attenuation. Also, using 800G for c…

Historically, the price difference between MMF and SMF transceivers was greatest at the highest speeds. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore for short-range transceivers.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#179

Post by eemil »

I'm surprised Chris left out a big reason: cable is cheap, and labor is expensive. And there are a lot of fixed costs that don't depend on the number of cables or their thickness.

You might save a little bit going with 4 pairs instead of 24. But that goes out the window as soon as you need to run a single new cable. If you want to be stingy, pull the cables but leave them unterminated.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#180

Post by Arn_Thor »

ghaff wrote: post #160
jaxn wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in an apartment. In a house, you want wired backhaul on access points, and wired streaming devices.

Why? Is this an actual problem? I have a bunch of wired connections (or at least had) but I'm not sure I ever saw a difference and I'm certainly not going to spend time or money retrofitting them for some Platonic ideal--ADDED, at least in recent years or outside of specific situations.

The answer is brick and concrete. You’d be amazed how well a load bearing wall in a high rise will block a signal.
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