EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices • Hacker News Board

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#171

Post by troupo » Sat, Mar 22, 2025, 9:28 PM UTC

xvokcarts wrote: post #159

troupo wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . But enacting regulation forcing Volvo to give you a full experience without Google Account login is just acting a step too late if you already bought it, or taking a step too far if you'd like to buy it but don't like it enough, and are now demanding they change it. Translation: no one should demand sensible things from companies ever. Because it's either too late, or too far. How has the world, especially the te…

> Translation: no one should demand sensible things from companies ever. Because it's either too late, or too far. Are you trying to make a career of misunderstanding my replies? Or am I just really that bad at writing? _People_, potential buyers, are _supposed_ to demand sensible things from companies. By voting with their money. Does that not work anymore?

> Are you trying to make a career of misunderstanding my replies? Or am I just really that bad at writing?

No, I'm just looking past the florid language. You've literally said that regulation is useless because it's either too late or too far.

There's probably some fantastical perfect moment when regulation is just right, but it will never come because there will always be people for whom regulation is either too late, or too far.

> _People_, potential buyers, are _supposed_ to demand sensible things from companies. By voting with their money. Does that not work anymore?

It has never worked. At least not to the extent people pretend it's working.

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#172

Post by xvokcarts » Sun, Mar 23, 2025, 5:51 AM UTC

troupo wrote: post #171

xvokcarts wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Translation: no one should demand sensible things from companies ever. Because it's either too late, or too far. Are you trying to make a career of misunderstanding my replies? Or am I just really that bad at writing? _People_, potential buyers, are _supposed_ to demand sensible things from companies. By voting with their money. Does that not work anymore?

> Are you trying to make a career of misunderstanding my replies? Or am I just really that bad at writing? No, I'm just looking past the florid language. You've literally said that regulation is useless because it's either too late or too far. There's probably some fantastical perfect moment when regulation is just right, but it will never come because there will always be people for whom regulation is either too lat…

No, what I said is that were I to be interested in buying a Volvo, I would've gone to the dealership to see it, and upon finding out that some functionality is available only if I login with my Google account, would tell the dealer that that's a dealbreaker and walk out.

If the car market is such that all car manufacturers are in a way colluding with Google to require such login, that's different and should already be regulated (if not, regulate). But if another manufacturer will sell me what I want, I fail to see the issue for me as a consumer.

But, I'm not against regulation per se (as you've accused me of), so I'm not ready to die on this hill :) You may be right after all.

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#173

Post by rstuart4133 » Sun, Mar 23, 2025, 10:46 AM UTC

tpmoney wrote: post #153

rstuart4133 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until the EU decides that a public API that changes without warning The usual solution is not to break the existing API, but to add new features and deprecate old ones. I doubt the EU will demand Apple not improve their API's. The EU may have something to say about the rate Apple drops of depreciated API's. Maintaining them does impose a burden, but it can't be that bad as Linux, Windows and Android have maintained…

> The EU may have something to say about the rate Apple drops of depreciated API's. Maintaining them does impose a burden, So you agree then that a public API would likely necessitate a slower pace of change. It’s good to finally get on the same page. > If you're using it as an example of how a public API can't evolve then it's a lousy example. I agree, so it’s a good thing I have never once claimed that a public API…

> So you agree then that a public API would likely necessitate a slower pace of change. It’s good to finally get on the same page.

Not at all. The pace of change is determined by how fast you introduce new API's. Apple in particular can change API's the iPhone talks to their watches as fast as they want, because they control both ends. Them publishing the protocol has absolutely no effect on that.

> What my argument is and always has been since the beginning is that a public API imposed costs on that evolution and almost certainly implies a slower pace of change.

Despite everything you've said here, I still don't know what those costs are beyond maintaining deprecated API's and documenting the API.

> If you want to use TLS1.3 everywhere, you can’t.

You're not Apple. Trust me, if Apple decided their watches and phones should only connect using TLS 1.3, then that's what would happen on the next release. You apparently are claiming being forced to publish they are now using TLS 1.3 would slow them down, but haven't offered a shred of evidence or a coherent reason on why that would be so.

On looking back, you haven't said anything new in this reply - you just repeated the same assertions. Sadly I have said anything new either, which means it's time to move on.

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#174

Post by attendant3446 » Sun, Mar 23, 2025, 11:40 AM UTC

intrasight wrote: post #155

attendant3446 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for Apple to embrace Linux because they'd sell a lot more Macs. If that was the case, I think they'd have done it a long time ago. It is more likely that keeping users on Apple-controlled operating systems brings them more profit

But I can't think of any scenario where that would be true. Selling more hardware would be profitable, and a user being able to dual boot into Linux wouldn't reduce any revenue.

My understanding is that the sale of hardware alone doesn't make anyone a trillion-dollar company. Selling subscriptions and processing payments does.