Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 233 posts

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#171

Post by Barrin92 »

toxik wrote: post #139
Barrin92 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth debating because China describes itself as such: http://en.moj.gov.cn/2024-03/05/c_967573.htm The Chinese would say the point of democracy is to translate the will of the people into action, it's to efficiently solve problems that people have, it's in their understanding neither liberal nor representative. In fact they'd likely turn your question around, if democracy is merely a set of procedures or ritual…

What absolute hogwash. Can you criticize and ridicule your government? No? Not a democracy.

There's currently a deep crisis of legitimacy in Western democracy so brushing off criticism as hogwash seems to me pretty ignorant.

The core of democracy cannot be, in the words of the current American president, to be "good television". If all your democracy does is exhaust itself in staging content for social media, television and election campaigns you have inverted what the point of it is. People don't need governments so bad that ridicule becomes a daily norm, they need it to solve material problems and put food on the table. Anything else is simply decadence.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#172

Post by bitmasher9 »

MaxPock wrote: post #147
tw04 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ignore the military ambitions of China and the fact they’re openly sharing technology with Russia, perhaps. I don’t see anything but regret for Europe several decades from now if they decide to start providing China with the technical expertise they’re currently lacking in this space. This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US.

"This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US" Is this supposed to be a nefarious Chinese activity?

I read the sentence as the US is the nefarious one, putting pressure between two groups to not work together. It’s only natural for China to act in its own self interest.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#173

Post by matt-p »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #35
briandear wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the goal is to decouple from the U.S., why would the EU want to collaborate with a totalitarian state like China?

The US and the Soviets were able to cooperate on space missions in spite of their enmity. It's not unreasonable to think that Europe could work with China on a scientific mission, even if the EU or its member states want to keep China at arms-length otherwise. There's an interesting moral quandary there, as to whether cooperation with a totalitarian regime helps diminish or consolidate the regime's power, but this da…

It is what it is, IF the USA is now europe's enemy, and aligning with Russia (cutting off ukraine from satellites, disabling F16s, hummilaiting the leader in press confrences, calling him a dictator in the press and JD calling us "random countries that haven't fought a war in 30 years" are all indicating that's true). We will forced to look for other friends, I'm not sure we have the luxury of complete ideological alignment, instead a pragmatic but considered strategic approach shall have to do. I for one think we've bigger fish to fry, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and all that.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#174

Post by palata »

basisword wrote: post #159
znpy wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in uk, so in continental europe, yes.

I've always thought of 'continental Europe' as meaning 'mainland Europe'. In other words excluding the disconnected parts like the UK. Regardless, the UK is in Europe.

I think you're right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Europe

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#175

Post by bitmasher9 »

_w1tm wrote: post #156
happymellon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because RISC V results would be something the Europeans could produce? We are reliant on the US as only 2 companies can make the x86/64 chips. I don't think Europe would be completely against working with a US or Chinese company like Hi Five/Star Five, as long as we weren't dependent on them, and could pull ties if they abused their position of control.

> We are reliant on the US as only 2 companies can make the x86/64 chips. The x86-64 architecture is on its way out globally thanks to Arm. RISC V is not needed for decoupling from the US.

ARM is owned by SoftBank, and you need to deal with them for licensing. While SoftBank is not based in the US, the amount they have invested in the US and US based companies means they are very coupled with US. Investing in ARM technology would have a stronger coupling than investing in RISC V.

This wouldn’t be true if Europe was more willing to abandon international copyright laws, but given the amount of IP they own they are unlikely to.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#176

Post by freddie_mercury »

omnimus wrote: post #114
trollbridge wrote: post #71

There’s a certain irony here as ARM is 100% British European.

Sorry to break it to you but its owned by Softbank. So technically its Japanese and ideogically its heavy US VC funds aligned.

And the CEO is an American based in California.

It is pretty hard to call Arm, or any decently sized modern company, 100% anything.

https://careers.arm.com/locations

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#177

Post by matt-p »

omnimus wrote: post #114
trollbridge wrote: post #71

There’s a certain irony here as ARM is 100% British European.

Sorry to break it to you but its owned by Softbank. So technically its Japanese and ideogically its heavy US VC funds aligned.

I see the point but you really care about

- Who Owns it (Japan) - Where is it headquartered (Cambridge) - Where is most of the IP produced (Cambridge mostly, but the remainder is in the US)

So if we care about being fast, surely the most expedient way, complete with guaranteed success, is to simply buy out softbank and then bring any IP development that's been offshored to the US back to Europe?

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#178

Post by omikun »

pipes wrote: post #115
ratatoskrt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it. China might be authoritarian, but it's acting way less eratic than the US right now.

"right now" being the key phrase here. On what length of time due you judge stability? The last 75 years or so in China... well amoung other things they killed over 50 million of their own people with a man made famine. The question is if the institutions that produced USA can hold. China on the other hand lacks the self correcting mechanisms that USA has built in.

> they killed over 50 million of their own people with a man made famine

... and they learned nothing from it.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#179

Post by hsuduebc2 »

akie wrote: post #104
ratatoskrt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it. China might be authoritarian, but it's acting way less eratic than the US right now.

The US is not just erratic, it wouldn't be a stretch to call them hostile towards the EU right now.

If not exactly hostile then definetly untrustworthy, they certainly show that they are willing to blackmail their partners. No one can be surprised that others want to get rid of influence over critical products. I strongly support it.

It's like with russian gas once again, even the root of the problem is the same. One man with infinite power and no accountability for his actions.

Just for clarification. I don't blame Americans, but at least from my perspective, this electoral system is very radical and gives almost "absolute power" to a person or party that almost always has marginally more support. You do not need to compromise by creating coalitions etc.

In the end, it is the fault of us Europeans who blindly believed that any successful candidate would be in our favour and perceived as friendly. Although everyone understands how fragile elections are, this was naively ignored.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#180

Post by hagbard_c »

alienthrowaway wrote: post #136
hagbard_c wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most authoritarian states are 'stable and predictable'. When you meet a lion on the savannah the beast is stable and predictable in that it will most likely try to eat you unless it isn't hungry. Step on a snake and the outcome is stable and predictable in that you will get bitten. It is good for Europe to learn to stand on its - our - own legs, to become less dependent on the USA for territorial defence and probably…

> It is good for Europe ... to learn the hard way that peace and tranquillity is the exception rather than the rule I don't know if you're being serious here, but this (Ameri-centric? C21-centric?) view is laughable. Europe is well-acquainted with war and never saw lasting peace for much of it's history until the second half of the 20th century.

> Europe ... saw lasting peace [in] the second half of the 20th century.

Which happens to coincide with the lifetime of the majority of Europeans. War was mostly something which happened to other countries, in other places - not in 'civilised' Europe, surely?

So yes, I am being serious - deadly serious. Most European countries neglected national defence after the fall of the Soviet Union in the expectation that Fukuyama was right when he claimed we were at 'The end of History' [1]. There is a good Swedish term for this condition: fredsskadad which translates to 'peace-damaged', the opposite of 'war-damaged'. It is the condition of a people who have gotten so used to peace being the norm that they assume that everyone everywhere else also considers peace to be the goal and thus no longer need to consider the possibility of ending up in a conflict.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57981.The_End_of_History...

Post reply on HN