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Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

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Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#171

Post by account42 »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #156
snowwrestler wrote: post #99

Maybe not well known, but during the 20th century a number of nations started a nuclear weapons program, but then were convinced to halt the work by security guarantees by the U.S. You better believe that every single one of those nations is now revisiting that decision. For those wondering if Italy can afford to build nuclear: their economy is larger than Russia’s. As is Brazil’s, another nation that put nuclear wea…

Here's a list of countries with a nuclear industry but no nuclear weapons program. Taiwan South Korea Japan Germany Sweden Italy UK (not counting trident) Ukraine

What nuclear industry does Germany have?

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#172

Post by Nux »

lovegrenoble wrote: post #131
snowwrestler wrote: post #99

Maybe not well known, but during the 20th century a number of nations started a nuclear weapons program, but then were convinced to halt the work by security guarantees by the U.S. You better believe that every single one of those nations is now revisiting that decision. For those wondering if Italy can afford to build nuclear: their economy is larger than Russia’s. As is Brazil’s, another nation that put nuclear wea…

Can We Please Stop Comparing Russia’s Economy to Italy’s? Who's comparing Russia's economy to Italy's? Apparently Lindsay Graham did in 2014. CNN in 2022. I like this article because it made me think about Russia and it's economy in a way that I didn't fully appreciate before. The article calls out an argument that compares Russia's economy to Italy's economy, using nominal GDP as a measurement. This is supposed to b…

Well said, this kind of comparisons always bugged me.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#173

Post by flanked-evergl »

rob74 wrote: post #151
snowwrestler wrote: post #99

Maybe not well known, but during the 20th century a number of nations started a nuclear weapons program, but then were convinced to halt the work by security guarantees by the U.S. You better believe that every single one of those nations is now revisiting that decision. For those wondering if Italy can afford to build nuclear: their economy is larger than Russia’s. As is Brazil’s, another nation that put nuclear wea…

BTW, Ukraine already had nuclear weapons, but agreed to give them up for security guarantees by the US, the UK, France and Russia (!) in 1994: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

The Budapest Memorandum had no security guarantees.

> Another key point was that U.S. State Department lawyers made a distinction between "security guarantee" and "security assurance", referring to the security guarantees that were desired by Ukraine in exchange for non-proliferation. "Security guarantee" would have implied the use of military force in assisting its non-nuclear parties attacked by an aggressor (such as Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty for NATO members) while "security assurance" would simply specify the non-violation of these parties' territorial integrity. In the end, a statement was read into the negotiation record that the (according to the U.S. lawyers) lesser sense of the English word "assurance" would be the sole implied translation for all appearances of both terms in all three language versions of the statement.[17] In the Ukrainian version of the document, the wording "security guarantees" was used though.[19]

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#174

Post by [deleted] »

Recursing wrote: post #68
aw4y wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not exactly a stereotype, just facts. for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponte_Morandi_collapse and also check what happens (now more than ever) everytime there's a big rain in a lot of italian places. I'm very concerned about this.

Bridge failures regularly happen in many countries, including France and South Korea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures#2000%E...

[deleted]

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#175

Post by flanked-evergl »

snowwrestler wrote: post #166
rob74 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, Ukraine already had nuclear weapons, but agreed to give them up for security guarantees by the US, the UK, France and Russia (!) in 1994: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

U.S. support of Ukraine fulfills a commitment we signed, and which Russia broke. The U.S. president doesn’t seem to care about international commitments, though. How does that work out in the long run? Would you do business with someone who tells you up front that they might break any promise they make?

There is no binding commitment that the US broke. You may not like that fact, but it is a fact.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#176

Post by antirez »

FrancisMoodie wrote: post #136
ttoinou wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No their economy is not larger than Russia, this is a common trope among people whose only way to reach reality is to irrationally use statistics computed by bureaucrats

Huh, so you're claiming that GDP data and such is not correct? Any source on that? Because I see multiple sources reporting that in 2023 the GDP of Russia was $2,009,959M and that of Italy was $2,300,941M, although Italy has a higher debt %. Which would confirm the original posters claim considering Italy is a much, much smaller country than Russia. What I find a common trope is people claiming facts are incorrect wi…

When discussing debt you need to factor in the interesting fact that people in Italy have savings sleeping on the bank that basically counter weight the debt.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#177

Post by mandmandam »

littlestymaar wrote: post #90

Last time Italy decided to re-open the topic of nuclear energy, we ended up with the Fukushima disaster. The last time before that was Chernobyl. A nuclear accident in the US due to deregulation would be fitting with the current mood, but I'd rather not to, please.

Do you know how many people die because of coal plants every year?

It's far, far more than nuclear per unit [0]. Nuclear power is nearly a thousand times less murderous.

0 - https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldw...

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#178

Post by koonsolo »

jsiepkes wrote: post #149
snowwrestler wrote: post #99

Maybe not well known, but during the 20th century a number of nations started a nuclear weapons program, but then were convinced to halt the work by security guarantees by the U.S. You better believe that every single one of those nations is now revisiting that decision. For those wondering if Italy can afford to build nuclear: their economy is larger than Russia’s. As is Brazil’s, another nation that put nuclear wea…

the Netherlands has nukes in loan from the US. They are at Volkel Airbase. Officially it's a secret, but it's common knowledge and was also confirmed by a former prime-minister. In exchange for these loaned nuclear weapons the Netherlands promised not to develop nuclear weapons of their own. With the US now showing they are not afraid of doing a "rug pull" on agreements, one starts to wonder if the Netherlands should…

Belgium is the same, and I don't know about you, but F16's and F35's are the only ones that can carry those bombs. That's why Belgium ordered a bunch of them and not some European planes.

It's too late to cancel now, but I guess in the future we will have to reconsider the true value of these bombs and airplanes. Once we really need them, US might "force us into peace".

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#179

Post by throwaway48476 »

erezsh wrote: post #143
MortyWaves wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's brilliantly dumb idea was it to have the only two referendums ever also immediately after a disaster? That is what you'd do if you want an overwhelmingly biased referendum playing off people's rash and short term panic based decision making.

The green energy lobby has everything to gain, and it's been working extra to make it a reality. For example, Greenpeace has been fighting nuclear power all over the world.

The anti nuclear lobby was funded by the KGB.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#180

Post by morkalork »

snowwrestler wrote: post #166
rob74 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, Ukraine already had nuclear weapons, but agreed to give them up for security guarantees by the US, the UK, France and Russia (!) in 1994: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

U.S. support of Ukraine fulfills a commitment we signed, and which Russia broke. The U.S. president doesn’t seem to care about international commitments, though. How does that work out in the long run? Would you do business with someone who tells you up front that they might break any promise they make?

Trump is slapping 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico because the USMCA agreement "is a scam" and he was the one to negotiate and sign it. After ripping up NAFTA. The USA's word is worthless now.
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