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Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

routersecurity.org

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Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#171

Post by bc569a80a344f9c »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #119
bc569a80a344f9c wrote: post #29

Conversely, by using their router and modem you move the demarc to the Ethernet port on the inside of the router, which makes getting support significantly easier. I care about that more than control. And I know damn well they ain’t got time to spy on me. Just because appeals to authority are fun, I spent decades as a network engineer and then architect.

> move the demarc to the Ethernet port on the inside of the router, which makes getting support significantly easier. I care about that more than control. > I spent decades as a network engineer and then architect. As an engineer, you've no interest in hosting your own services?

Not at this point. Because it’s not _my_ service. This home network is also used by my wife, by visitors, and by my kids if I had any. Earlier in my career I was using home labs to learn and that was fine. Nowadays I really don’t want any more weekends where I had intended to do nothing or something not related to technology and find myself having to fix something that’s broken for others.

I’m fortunate enough to have fun at work, that may well be part of it.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#172

Post by briHass »

IgorPartola wrote: post #17

Any desktop computer + Intel dual GB NIC + opnsense and you have an amazingly powerful router. Add in a Raspberry Pi running the Omada controller software and some Omada access points and you have an inexpensive and very robust WiFi network. Don’t forget to turn on auto updates for opnsense.

I moved away from the x86 box to Mikrotik after a late night spent debugging NIC issues in BSD/Debian (Proxmox VM)

They have inexpensive devices (Hex wired router will handle up to about 1 Gbps), and they receive software updates for longer than any hw manufacturer I can think of.

The main gateway router in my household has become something that needs to work reliably, not something I can (or want to) tinker with all that much. The MT devices are infinitely flexible, but rock solid and cheap.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#173

Post by pimeys »

anal_reactor wrote: post #166
pimeys wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, we finally get fiber in the "richest" country. Telekom just wants to build it to our apartment, for free. They just need a permission from our landlord, who said no way and blocked the fiber installation. We are stuck with Vodafone only... I guess it is a better investment for them to smoke us out, renovate this place and rent it with three times more...

Why would landlord do that, besides "I hate you and go fuck yourself"? He's knowingly reducing the value of his property

In Germany you sign a contract and it is hard to get you out. The rent increases very little while you are there. When you move out they do a quick renovation and charge double or triple the rent you paid.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#174

Post by stjo »

microtonal wrote: post #147
OkGoDoIt wrote: post #21

I wish. I own my own modem and router, but Comcast won’t let me use them unless I pay a whole bunch of extra fees or accept a stupidly low monthly data cap. I’ve got my router downstream of theirs which is a bit annoying, especially considering their modem-router combo overheats and needs to be rebooted via unplugging power at least once a month. Sadly I have no other options here in San Francisco. My house is not wi…

This is why the market needs some regulation. Here in The Netherlands, ISPs are required to offer free (as in freedom) modem/router choice. Not only can you replace the router, you can even use your own XGS-PON/AON/etc. SFP(+) module. For a while I had fiber running through an XGS-PON SFP module in my own Fritz!Box. Now I use the provider's ONT (which is just a fiber ethernet media converter) hooked up to a Unifi Clo…

You could also solve this with competition. If there were 10 ISPs it would be disadvantageous to give your customers reasons to leave you. Why aren’t there more ISPs? Maybe too many regulations. It is trivial to lay cable, except of course all the permits.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#175

Post by anal_reactor »

pimeys wrote: post #173
anal_reactor wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would landlord do that, besides "I hate you and go fuck yourself"? He's knowingly reducing the value of his property

In Germany you sign a contract and it is hard to get you out. The rent increases very little while you are there. When you move out they do a quick renovation and charge double or triple the rent you paid.

Makes sense.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#176

Post by spikej »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #21

I wish. I own my own modem and router, but Comcast won’t let me use them unless I pay a whole bunch of extra fees or accept a stupidly low monthly data cap. I’ve got my router downstream of theirs which is a bit annoying, especially considering their modem-router combo overheats and needs to be rebooted via unplugging power at least once a month. Sadly I have no other options here in San Francisco. My house is not wi…

I had a similar problem with having to deal with an ISP provided modem, and solved it in the stupidest way possible: xmas light timer to reboot it in the middle of the night. It's set to go off for 30 min then come back on. Sadly, I've had this up and running for years...

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#177

Post by anticensor »

bc569a80a344f9c wrote: post #170
anticensor wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I want demarcation right inside the router?

Telecom models don’t allow for this. Demarcs are ports. One side owns the port, the other side owns the cable that plugs into it.

If only someone standardised a router layout with customer-owned and provider-owned modules and a neutral, state-owned, bridge hardware. Similar to how TVs deal with conditional access. And no, SFP ports are not a solution to this problem, because they only have 1 plug each side.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#178

Post by sottol »

stjo wrote: post #174
microtonal wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the market needs some regulation. Here in The Netherlands, ISPs are required to offer free (as in freedom) modem/router choice. Not only can you replace the router, you can even use your own XGS-PON/AON/etc. SFP(+) module. For a while I had fiber running through an XGS-PON SFP module in my own Fritz!Box. Now I use the provider's ONT (which is just a fiber ethernet media converter) hooked up to a Unifi Clo…

You could also solve this with competition. If there were 10 ISPs it would be disadvantageous to give your customers reasons to leave you. Why aren’t there more ISPs? Maybe too many regulations. It is trivial to lay cable, except of course all the permits.

Or maybe it's an oligopoly where the incumbents have carved up the market and stopped competing, milking their customers instead.

Broadband is then extra special if you let the ISP also own the infrastructure as everyone has to reconnect their service to every house instead of one company (or forbid, the govt) owning the pipes and several companies competing for providing services over those shared pipes.

Imo the competition model doesn't necessarily (always) work that well for infra.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#179

Post by mixermachine »

microtonal wrote: post #148
pimeys wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, we finally get fiber in the "richest" country. Telekom just wants to build it to our apartment, for free. They just need a permission from our landlord, who said no way and blocked the fiber installation. We are stuck with Vodafone only... I guess it is a better investment for them to smoke us out, renovate this place and rent it with three times more...

Germany? We lived in Germany for five years and internet-wise it felt like going back to the stone age. We paid extra to get 20MBit upstream, but on Saturdays, you'd often only get 1MBit (more downstream of course). Cellular reception was crappy in much of the country (even inside larger cities). We left Germany in 2018. We have unlimited 4Gbit synchronous fiber and unlimited 5G.

It's better now in Germany. My parents life in the country side and got fiber about one year ago. 600/300 MBit/s for 60€. Not cheap but very stable and always delivers.

I use Vodafone Cable 250/50 MBit/s for around 25€ (discount for new customers). Not very stable but good enough. 1000/50 MBit/s is available but costs 50€.

If you live together with someone you can always switch the contract taker and thus always get the "new" customer benefits to save some money.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#180

Post by mixermachine »

bowsamic wrote: post #156
pimeys wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, we finally get fiber in the "richest" country. Telekom just wants to build it to our apartment, for free. They just need a permission from our landlord, who said no way and blocked the fiber installation. We are stuck with Vodafone only... I guess it is a better investment for them to smoke us out, renovate this place and rent it with three times more...

Ours blocked Vodafone too. We literally have no wired internet options. Our landlord just forces us to use their extremely slow WiFi Also in Germany

Is that even legal? I always thought a land-line connection is mandatory.

I recommend to check the law here :)

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