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The State of Vim

lwn.net

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Re: The State of Vim

#171

Post by wruza »

lawn wrote: post #85
wruza wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neovim turned itself into a pop-blink IDE which some people never wanted. It's good that it serves the needs of its fans, but it's also good that Vim stayed in its own tracks. Losing Vim as it is would be a great loss for many.

> Neovim turned itself into a pop-blink IDE What does that even mean? Just sounds like a lazy and false argument.

It was a selling point back then and the reason for a fork. Bram didn’t want to add async tech into Vim, cause async enabled various parallel-to-you visual activities. Neovim forked and did async+lua on its own terms. Vim later added async functionality, and I think it was the best outcome. Vimers still got shy LSPs and Neovimers got whatever they dreamed about in their separate emvironment. Good fork.

Things may have settled since then, maybe that’s why you think that this phrase looks odd.

Re: The State of Vim

#173

Post by mehalter »

cassepipe wrote: post #168
pdimitar wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved LunarVim as well but after switching to AstroNvim I like it more. And it's easy to customize even for a very burned out dev like myself.

I also jumped ship to AstroNvim but I still prefer Lunarvim, I liked having all the config in just one file and some of its defaults. But I agree, Astro is the best distro currently maintained distro in my opinion.

You can definitely put all of your configuration into a single file for AstroNvim if you want.

In the docs it shows the minimal configuration to get AstroNvim running which is https://github.com/AstroNvim/AstroNvim?tab=readme-ov-file#mi...)

Here is a user on GitHub that has a single file AstroNvim configuration: https://github.com/20k-ultra/dotfiles/blob/master/nvim/init....

Re: The State of Vim

#174

Post by cassepipe »

mehalter wrote: post #173
cassepipe wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also jumped ship to AstroNvim but I still prefer Lunarvim, I liked having all the config in just one file and some of its defaults. But I agree, Astro is the best distro currently maintained distro in my opinion.

You can definitely put all of your configuration into a single file for AstroNvim if you want. In the docs it shows the minimal configuration to get AstroNvim running which is https://github.com/AstroNvim/AstroNvim?tab=readme-ov-file#mi... ) Here is a user on GitHub that has a single file AstroNvim configuration: https://github.com/20k-ultra/dotfiles/blob/master/nvim/init....

Thanks for the Intel. I found my comment shallow but now I am happy I wrote it.

Re: The State of Vim

#175

Post by yodsanklai »

wyclif wrote: post #96
yodsanklai wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to VSCode with vim mode. I think it's a good tradeoff to get IDE features with modal editing.

Did you use the Vim or the Neovim plugin? I have had a hard time trying to get either to play nice with VSCode.

I use VSCodeVim. I have used for a while without trouble. There are some issues, for instance, bookmarks don't work for me. Never tried neovim.

Re: The State of Vim

#176

Post by 112233 »

maleldil wrote: post #110
112233 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neovim sounded like a good idea, so I switched, too. Then after an update, it broke mouse selection in terminal, by turning on some crazy option by default. I still have to search how to disable it each time. Ok, things like that happen. Then, after another update, it broke terminal update. Like, your screen scrolls up or down a line and the text does not get redrawn correctly. Is it a wezterm issue? Well, the origin…

Vim is more stable simply because it changes less often. Neovim is constantly improving its APIs, and that can break stuff. If you don't want to deal with breaking changes, just don't update. You can still use most plugins.

How do you propose I update my distro (fedora) and just don't update text editor? Are you in a habit of bringing a chroot with known good versions of your tools to every computer you ssh into? Like, I'd really want to have that. May it be I've missed some new thing that allows me to not update?

Re: The State of Vim

#177

Post by robenkleene »

bee_rider wrote: post #151
112233 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neovim sounded like a good idea, so I switched, too. Then after an update, it broke mouse selection in terminal, by turning on some crazy option by default. I still have to search how to disable it each time. Ok, things like that happen. Then, after another update, it broke terminal update. Like, your screen scrolls up or down a line and the text does not get redrawn correctly. Is it a wezterm issue? Well, the origin…

Neovim sort of reminds me of zsh, in the sense that I can never really figure out if there’s some underlying technical advantage or if it is just the case that some features people like have been turned on by default.

Not that I disagree that both Zsh and Neovim turn on some attractive features by default, but the `zle` line editor being more extensible than deadline and built-in support Treesitter/LSP support seem like pretty obvious technical advantages (for the folks the features those enable are attractive to).

Re: The State of Vim

#178

Post by the-grump »

otikik wrote: post #156
ykonstant wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't feel like substantiating my claims to someone who assumes a default hostile response to me and makes nonsensical readings of what I say. For instance, when I compare Lua to vim9 script and say the former is general purpose, I am obviously in the context of comparing the one scripting language to the latter. And you know that. And yet, even though you understand the context perfectly, you still choose to w…

I don't know how my comment as hostile. But sure, don't substantiate.

It's hostile, and GP did basically substantiate by pointing out the strawman.

Re: The State of Vim

#179

Post by arp242 »

ykonstant wrote: post #120

> How can we make Vim9 script, the new Vim scripting language, more widely used? One way is to inform users and prospective plugin writers that 1) Vim9 script is vastly superior to the old Vimscript, to the point where it is not unpleasant to use, and 2) it is much more conductive to writing text editor code than the general purpose Lua. Of course this still does not mean that people will want to learn yet another sc…

> it is much more conductive to writing text editor code than the general purpose Lua.

Personally I think that was already the case with "classic" VimScript, although I also appreciate it's a bit idiosyncratic and that many people don't have the time or interest to learn it.

I suppose that's also the problem with VimScript9. I agree is a real and meaningful improvement over VimScript, but I suppose that for many it's just "not important enough" to learn, even though it's not an especially difficult language to learn. I don't think that's unreasonable – there's tons of not especially difficult things I never bothered to learn in depth either, I just happened to choose Vim stuff at some point.

Re: The State of Vim

#180

Post by wirrbel »

mmooss wrote: post #139
wirrbel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Braam really took Neovim personally and got better at getting stuff into vim that he wouldn't merge before once neovim was arround as a competitor. I really lost track of vim in the last years because neovim is just a solid platform with an active community. But honestly at work, I think I am the only one using either a vim or emacs (I kind of use neovim and emacs but primarily neovim). In my childhood there was a TV…

Why do Neovim users feel the need to take down Bram and Vim? Now you are taking credit for Bram's work! Why not make an application you love and leave everyone else alone? The community's behavior - what I see - is a deterrent to using Neovim.

It’s astonishing that you can arrive at this conclusion from my comment. He did great work, his development process did not scale. I am happy that I was able to use vim for more than a decade prior to neovim. The fact that after the neovim fork vims development started to pick up speed again is a fact (and doesn’t devalue bram’s work in any way).

I am happy with bram’s work on vim and with the neovim devs and their work on neovim.

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