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JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

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Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#171

Post by [deleted] »

intended wrote: post #135
com2kid wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't overcomplicate things. Whiteboards are way better than even the best of online tools and drawing with a mouse. For that matter, post-it notes on a wall are better than JIRA. At one workplace everyone had glass table so they could draw on with markers. People could literally come up to your desk and you could work through problems together on one end of the table. The best online tools are garbage compared to ph…

These are your > spontaneous social chats often lead to work-related brainstorming. Being in the office next to co-workers leads to more spontaneous discussions. I submit that this isn’t my reality.I never spontaneously break out a whiteboard., the same way I dont spontaneously break out into a dance routine. I do hope I’m in the majority, otherwise I’m really unsure of what to make of all the work places I’ve been a…

[deleted]

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#173

Post by 999900000999 »

tharne wrote: post #167
screye wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike RTO because none of that happens anymore. The economic landscape is too paranoid (despite positive macro indicators) for employees to enjoy work. People don't want to chit chat, just clock in clock out. Layoffs threat is ever present. Remote & odd-time zone meetings are still here. Can't turn off my computer after 5pm. In office benefits are limited. Mentoring, learning-seminars and after-work activities ar…

> But, if you could work from anywhere, why wouldn't you want to be in the coolest city in the world? Large cities are like black licorice. The people who like them, really like them, but most of us think they're kind of gross.

Big cities are okay, it's just New York and San Francisco and particular are so wildly expensive I'd have to make another 70 to $80,000 a year for it to make sense .

But that's not what I'm seeing in the market, I'm seeing recruiters tell me for another 10k I can have the privilege of moving to the NYC or The Bay.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#174

Post by bdangubic »

surgical_fire wrote: post #146
screye wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike RTO because none of that happens anymore. The economic landscape is too paranoid (despite positive macro indicators) for employees to enjoy work. People don't want to chit chat, just clock in clock out. Layoffs threat is ever present. Remote & odd-time zone meetings are still here. Can't turn off my computer after 5pm. In office benefits are limited. Mentoring, learning-seminars and after-work activities ar…

A lot of people actually despise living in major cities. I was born in one, a huge metropolis, and lived in it for the most of my life. For a long time I was forced to live there, because the jobs were there too. In may ways, the pandemic was a blessing for me. Remote work allowed me to move to a small city, closer to a rural area. If depends solely on my desire, I will never again live in a major city.

I am not sure if “a lot” is correct assessment. I live in urban area and most of my friends have either been fully remote before C19 or after. no one wants to move anywhere even though we could all live wherever. urban areas have numerous other advantages besides better job markets, especially if you have kids. schools, sports, theatre, etc etc.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#175

Post by ajdude »

patmorgan23 wrote: post #82
nielsbot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pains me to say this, but I find in-person discussions more productive than online ones. It's not just shooting the shit--for me, spontaneous social chats often lead to work-related brainstorming. Being in the office next to co-workers leads to more spontaneous discussions.

Yep. Also in person mentoring and spontaneous collaboration. In person and remote both have advantages and will work better or worse for different people, organizations, or situations.

Spontaneous collaboration is a big one for me. I am in a niche department and by simply having an office in an accessible hallway with my door open, people suddenly remember that my department exists and they are constantly popping in my door to chat about ideas. Usually those chats result in new projects

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#176

Post by surgical_fire »

bdangubic wrote: post #174
surgical_fire wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people actually despise living in major cities. I was born in one, a huge metropolis, and lived in it for the most of my life. For a long time I was forced to live there, because the jobs were there too. In may ways, the pandemic was a blessing for me. Remote work allowed me to move to a small city, closer to a rural area. If depends solely on my desire, I will never again live in a major city.

I am not sure if “a lot” is correct assessment. I live in urban area and most of my friends have either been fully remote before C19 or after. no one wants to move anywhere even though we could all live wherever. urban areas have numerous other advantages besides better job markets, especially if you have kids. schools, sports, theatre, etc etc.

If we qre exchanging anecdotes, I do know plenty of people that either moved out to the countryside, or would be willing to move if they were sure they could work remote indefinitely.

I'd even say that having kids is one major factor in wanting to move out of big cities.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#177

Post by lucidone »

I wouldn't mind RTO so much if the cities where most tech jobs are were affordable. I'd rather be a millwright in my middle-of-nowhere mining town with a 10 minute commute in a 250k house versus a software developer with an hour long commute and a million dollar mortgage in big-metropolis. For now, I am making hay while the sun is shining and getting the best of both worlds while squirreling away as much cash as possible.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#178

Post by nielsbot »

jppope wrote: post #93
nielsbot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pains me to say this, but I find in-person discussions more productive than online ones. It's not just shooting the shit--for me, spontaneous social chats often lead to work-related brainstorming. Being in the office next to co-workers leads to more spontaneous discussions.

I find the opposite. People frequently show up to meetings in person unprepared. They are also way less likely to document the discussion - which can now be done with AI transcribing the discussion... which is even more productive. There is way more shooting the shit in person.

i am making a distinction between meetings in a conference room (those are fine remote, generally IMO) vs having conversations

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#179

Post by intended »

com2kid wrote: post #155
intended wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are your > spontaneous social chats often lead to work-related brainstorming. Being in the office next to co-workers leads to more spontaneous discussions. I submit that this isn’t my reality.I never spontaneously break out a whiteboard., the same way I dont spontaneously break out into a dance routine. I do hope I’m in the majority, otherwise I’m really unsure of what to make of all the work places I’ve been a…

> I submit that this isn’t my reality.I never spontaneously break out a whiteboard., the same way I dont spontaneously break out into a dance routine. Countless times I've walked up to someone and asked "hey can I work through this problem on a whiteboard with you." And while I haven't done so myself, I have had coworkers spontaneously break into dance routines before. (Ok that has only happened once...)

Do you have visas for your timeline ? I’ll immigrate.

You have infinity times more dance routines in your time line than in mine.

To the point - they’re talking about having water cooler conversations, which spontaneously lead to ideas.

If all we really need is better white board tech, people can simply meet twice a week and white board, I.e. hybrid.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#180

Post by intended »

nunez wrote: post #158
intended wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever thought of why? Just ‘magic’, is an open doorway for bias and unreliable memory to enter and influence the conversation. Is it perhaps that there are specific people, who are doing the ideation, or are particularly good at helping you think? Or is it anyone and everyone? If it’s anyone, then is it a social / biological quirk? Is it something else? For everyone reading, this is worth reflecting upon, if…

I'm a sales engineer. Given that a big chunk of our job is face-to-face, I can answer this. We are a social species. Body language, eye contact and facial expressions are more important than the spoken word during a conversation. They're also extremely subtle. You don't think about someone leaning in or mimicking your position (that's a thing!) when you're saying something interesting, but we instinctively pick up on…

The point we branched from was to ask what specifically generated the new ideas, out of spontaneous social situations in work places.

There’s definitely roles which have to be in person, and those people should come to office.

Everyone else - they don’t need to in the same way sales people would.

Not all conversations lead to insights, what’s going on then?

There’s some specific things happening to lead to the productivity benefit. Because this is what it is in the end, it’s productivity we care about, not socializing.

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