Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

congestion-pricing-tracker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 653 posts

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#171

Post by Twirrim »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #140
maxwellg wrote: post #11

I'm incredibly hopeful that NYC congestion pricing pays off in a big way - and that we start to see it in other cities across America. I really, really want congestion pricing in downtown SF. During rush hour, cars block the box and slow down busses, with cascading effects.

I think it's highly unlikely to result in positive effects. I would be hoping that it only harms NYC economic condition "a little", as the best case outcome. This falls solidly in the "it sounds good but causes significant negative unintended consequences" bucket of regulation, like the rest of NYC's many regulations that led up to this point.

It has been highly successful in London. Less congestion, better air quality, incentivises the most disruptive things like heavy good vehicles to deliver out of rush hour reducing impact on other traffic etc.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#172

Post by peterbonney »

neilv wrote: post #131

This seems to be selling use of the public roads to rich people (who can more easily afford the tolls). Isn't this a step backwards for social justice?

That might be the case in other cities, but in NYC the socioeconomic dynamics are less clear. It’s mostly affluent-to-rich suburbanites that drive to work from outside the city, with rich and poor city residents primarily taking public transit (and to a lesser extent using taxis and car services). Almost no city residents - rich, poor or in between - drive to and from a 9-5 job in Manhattan.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#173

Post by cj »

tshaddox wrote: post #87
taatof wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we get around? To get downtown I have to take two busses and then bart (or two busses but it takes longer because there are a lot more stops). The kicker: I'm not even in a suburb, I live in SF! All we do in SF is make car driving worse, we almost never make public transit better. At least NYC has a plenty good enough train system. I end up WFH anyway, largely because it's annoying to get to an office downtown…

Congestion pricing makes driving better, not worse.

Of course it does, if you remove price from the equation!

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#174

Post by dullcrisp »

RHSeeger wrote: post #152
nine_k wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, SF, the home of both some of the most powerful NIMBYs and the most outlandish "social justice" experiments. I feel for this once wonderful, poor city. As a consolation, I must say that e.g. NYC was also handled miserably, say, in 1980s. Despite that, it rose from the filth, and is now fine, even outright enjoyable here and there. I think that SF will also shake off its current insanity, and will turn back into a…

> Despite that, it rose from the filth, and is now fine Well, except for the people being pushing in front of subways to their death, or lit on fire in stations. The subways stations are getting dangerous enough, even in "not bad" areas, that people are avoiding them.

What are they doing instead? Driving on the roads? Staying home?

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#175

Post by comprambler »

insaneirish wrote: post #155
comprambler wrote: post #20

Congestion pricing can work to dissuade individuals from living in the burbs, only if there is controls on real estate to deal with the influx of people moving inward. The other benefit is an increase of mass transit usage, which is a plus? I personally took a cab from Newark to Laguardia at MIDNIGHT and it took 40 min to cross into Manhattan to get to the Queens-Midtown tunnel. Just a new level of traffic. Was fun g…

> I personally took a cab from Newark to Laguardia I don't understand why anyone would ever attempt to do this. Was it truly the only option?

Flight got rebooked with a couple hours notice, stayed at LGA checkin till it opened, had the first flight out. Fare was more than 100$

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#176

Post by viccis »

maxwellg wrote: post #11

I'm incredibly hopeful that NYC congestion pricing pays off in a big way - and that we start to see it in other cities across America. I really, really want congestion pricing in downtown SF. During rush hour, cars block the box and slow down busses, with cascading effects.

It works well in NYC because it's hard to justify driving anyway. The transit system is just so extensive.

But somewhere like Atlanta, Dallas, etc.? Absolutely not. It's just a vice tax levied on poor people who are already not happy about having to commute long drives into the city center to find work. They have no alternative. They can't spend 3 hours each way on buses. They can't afford to live in the the handful of walkable blocks in the city with $3k+ rent that effectively serve as a little Disneyland for affluent residents who want to larp like they live in Brooklyn.

Build the public transit BEFORE you hit the poors with a giant stick. Because I guarantee you that hitting them with that stick is not going to effect change in any way, as these people have next to no influence on policymakers already.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#177

Post by vinay427 »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #163
scarab92 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that? Congestion pricing is a way to price an externality, which is usually a good thing compared to externalities being free.

The externality is already "priced in" to the traffic. People who can wait in traffic or can't afford not to wait in traffic do so, and people who want to skip out can as well. Congestion pricing, like many fees and regulations, is a regressive tax, because the overhead seeps into all goods and services and it impacts the poor most of all and the rich not at all.

The median income of a household with a car in the city is more than double that of households without cars [1]. In a city where public transport is a viable and relatively cheap alternative, it doesn’t seem obvious that it disproportionately impacts the poor, unlike for instance a flat sales tax on essential goods.

[1] https://blog.tstc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/how-car-fre...

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#179

Post by bushbaba »

maxwellg wrote: post #11

I'm incredibly hopeful that NYC congestion pricing pays off in a big way - and that we start to see it in other cities across America. I really, really want congestion pricing in downtown SF. During rush hour, cars block the box and slow down busses, with cascading effects.

Why can’t we have dedicated bus lanes. Seems like a more amicable solution.

Personally I find it weird that SF’s public transit is so under water it needs bail outs from car drivers. Yet it also doesn’t serve the car drivers with any compelling equivalent.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#180

Post by bushbaba »

vinay427 wrote: post #177
Ferret7446 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The externality is already "priced in" to the traffic. People who can wait in traffic or can't afford not to wait in traffic do so, and people who want to skip out can as well. Congestion pricing, like many fees and regulations, is a regressive tax, because the overhead seeps into all goods and services and it impacts the poor most of all and the rich not at all.

The median income of a household with a car in the city is more than double that of households without cars [1]. In a city where public transport is a viable and relatively cheap alternative, it doesn’t seem obvious that it disproportionately impacts the poor, unlike for instance a flat sales tax on essential goods. [1] https://blog.tstc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/how-car-fre...

It disproportionately impacts the working lower classes. Poor in NYC likely means homeless. Dual income McDonalds working family is above the CarLess HHI median wage in the reports you linked. That same worker is heavily impacted by congestion pricing vs say a Quant trader

17$/hr * 50hrs/week * 52weeks/year * 2 earners = 88.5k/year

Post reply on HN