Bitcoin is over $100k • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#171

Post by ethagnawl » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:07 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #89

nadermx wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just struggle to see it's utility

Its utility is similar to that of cash. But unlike cash it's (1) less fungible (2) much easier to transport (3) harder to secure from theft and/or destruction * (4) value is more volatile than USD/EUR/CAD/AUD (5) incredibly resource intensive to maintain (and growing!). It's not an equity, it's a currency. The Bitcoin network is nigh "indestructible" as long as some folks still consider it useful. This delivers credi…

> Its utility is similar to that of cash.

In the USA, spending cash doesn't require ~30 minutes of validation or a capital gains report.

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#172

Post by latchkey » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:08 AM UTC

deadbabe wrote: post #12

Why hell does this keep going up? Can you pretty much just buy at any point in time and be guaranteed a 10x return?

Michael Saylor has been doing it for years now (and is also part of the reason why this is going up).

https://saylortracker.com/

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#173

Post by WiSaGaN » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:09 AM UTC

some-guy wrote: post #14

Is there way to quantify how much of the economy these days is "bullshit" (purely speculative assets), and if we are at peak bullshit now as a percentage of total economic activity?

Unless you see gold as bullshit as well. I think it should now be consensus that Bitcoin isn't acting as a transaction tool, but as a store of value, just like gold. There are pros and cons when comparing it to gold as a store of value. But the main thing that keeps up the "value" of Bitcoin is just the belief that "it is a store of value" itself. As long as people continue to believe this, it doesn't need to have traditional value. This is the same as gold. Bitcoin in this sense is even more pure, because gold still has some industrial and consumer uses, while Bitcoin has zero. This belief may or may not persist in the foreseeable future, but it is what it is now. Thinking this is "bullshit" just doesn't really matter.

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#174

Post by owens99 » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:11 AM UTC

Why is this post flagged?

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#175

Post by throw101010 » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:13 AM UTC

max_likelihood wrote: post #88

I wonder how much of the price action is due to debt funded purchases through MSTR and other leveraged ETFs (e.g. BITU, BITX)?

Have a look at the daily volume of trading for Bitcoin, these financial tools are a very small part of this... we are talking $50-100 billions daily. It does contribute, but in terms of scale way less than what you seem to suggest... arguably I would guess that these days the announcements of big purchases move the market more than the actual purchase itself.

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#176

Post by Empact » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:23 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #89

nadermx wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just struggle to see it's utility

Its utility is similar to that of cash. But unlike cash it's (1) less fungible (2) much easier to transport (3) harder to secure from theft and/or destruction * (4) value is more volatile than USD/EUR/CAD/AUD (5) incredibly resource intensive to maintain (and growing!). It's not an equity, it's a currency. The Bitcoin network is nigh "indestructible" as long as some folks still consider it useful. This delivers credi…

Perhaps most importantly, unlike cash, it can't be printed, and unlike gold, its supply is not responsive to price.

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#177

Post by ks2048 » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:25 AM UTC

ks2048 wrote: post #76

amazingamazing wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neat, how about something from this century? And the French Revolution is more complicated than rich people getting richer.

I don’t think we’re real close to a “French revolution”, but an executed CEO today could be a symptom of the situation. (Of course, we don’t know the motive yet. But just the online discourse around it is telling).

To follow-up on my comment of “online discourse” about this: the Facebook post from the company (…deeply saddened…) has 20.6K laugh emojis vs ~4k in sympathy related)

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#178

Post by Empact » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:26 AM UTC

ethagnawl wrote: post #171

wyldfire wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its utility is similar to that of cash. But unlike cash it's (1) less fungible (2) much easier to transport (3) harder to secure from theft and/or destruction * (4) value is more volatile than USD/EUR/CAD/AUD (5) incredibly resource intensive to maintain (and growing!). It's not an equity, it's a currency. The Bitcoin network is nigh "indestructible" as long as some folks still consider it useful. This delivers credi…

> Its utility is similar to that of cash. In the USA, spending cash doesn't require ~30 minutes of validation or a capital gains report.

Transacting bitcoin via the lightning network is instant. Capital gains is a matter of policy and is likely to change at some point as bitcoin succeeds.

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#179

Post by wyldfire » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:30 AM UTC

Empact wrote: post #176

wyldfire wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its utility is similar to that of cash. But unlike cash it's (1) less fungible (2) much easier to transport (3) harder to secure from theft and/or destruction * (4) value is more volatile than USD/EUR/CAD/AUD (5) incredibly resource intensive to maintain (and growing!). It's not an equity, it's a currency. The Bitcoin network is nigh "indestructible" as long as some folks still consider it useful. This delivers credi…

Perhaps most importantly, unlike cash, it can't be printed, and unlike gold, its supply is not responsive to price.

> it can't be printed

New coins are minted with every block. But perhaps you mean to suggest that it's "stable" or "predictable." The emission rate of bitcoin is predictable - but this is predicated on the stability/predictability of the community of miners/stakers. It seems extremely irrational now, but if something were to change such that the community decided to drastically increase or decrease the block reward, they could indeed do so if they found consensus.

> its supply is not responsive to price.

While this is probably true, the value of mining equipment is directly related to the exchange rate of bitcoin (and perhaps its recent rate of increase/decrease). This doesn't impact supply, but it does impact the network OpEx.

Re: Bitcoin is over $100k

#180

Post by throw101010 » Thu, Dec 05, 2024, 4:32 AM UTC

WiSaGaN wrote: post #173

some-guy wrote: post #14

Is there way to quantify how much of the economy these days is "bullshit" (purely speculative assets), and if we are at peak bullshit now as a percentage of total economic activity?

Unless you see gold as bullshit as well. I think it should now be consensus that Bitcoin isn't acting as a transaction tool, but as a store of value, just like gold. There are pros and cons when comparing it to gold as a store of value. But the main thing that keeps up the "value" of Bitcoin is just the belief that "it is a store of value" itself. As long as people continue to believe this, it doesn't need to have tr…

I'll add that if gold wasn't so impractical to transfer, store and verify we would most likely still be using it as a currency way more frequently (even in our inflatuonist systems, it would likely be seen as a more sound money).

Bitcoin improves a lot on all of these properties while introducing other properties (open/public network, borderless, public ledger, etc.). Its supply/issuance has also been much more stable than Gold ever was (and ever will be if we're to believe the predictions of giant mines and even future asteroid mining).