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Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

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Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#171

Post by adamcharnock »

bambambazooka wrote: post #167
adamcharnock wrote: post #133

We've [1] been using Hetzner's dedicated servers to provide Kubernetes clusters to our clients for a few years now. The performance is certainly excellent, we typically see request times half. And because the hardware is cheaper we can provide dedicated DevOps engineering time to each client. There are some caveats though: 1) A staging cluster for testing updates is really a must. YOLO-ing prod updates on a Sunday is…

> 5) If you want network redundancy you can create a 1G vSwitch (VLAN) on the 1G ports for internal use. Give each server a loopback IP, then use BGP to distribute routes (bird). Are you willing to share example config for that part?

I don't have one I can share publicly, but if you send me an email I'll see what I can do :-) Email is in my profile.

You'll need a bit of baseline networking knowledge.

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#172

Post by sgarland »

KaiserPro wrote: post #165
tutfbhuf wrote: post #56

I have experience running Kubernetes clusters on Hetzner dedicated servers, as well as working with a range of fully or highly managed services like Aurora, S3, and ECS Fargate. From my experience, the cloud bill on Hetzner can sometimes be as low as 20% of an equivalent AWS bill. However, this cost advantage comes with significant trade-offs. On Kubernetes with Hetzner, we managed a Ceph cluster using NVMe storage,…

Ceph is a bastard to run. Its expensive, slow and just not really ready. Yes I know people use it, but compared to a fully grown up system (ie lustre[don't its raid 0 in prod] or GPFS [great but expensive]) its just a massive time sync. You are much better off having a bunch of smaller file systems exported over NFS make sure that you have block level replication. Single address space filesystems are ok and convenien…

I agree that it is hideously complicated (to anyone saying “just use Rook,” I’ll counter that if you haven’t read through Ceph’s docs in full, you’re deluding yourself that you know how to run it), but given that CERN uses it at massive scale, I think it’s definitely prod-ready.

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#173

Post by simtel20 »

lproven wrote: post #160
tutfbhuf wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is my ouput, but I use ChatGPT to fix my spelling and grammar. Maybe my prompt for that should be refined in order to not alter the wording too much.

> I use ChatGPT to fix my spelling and grammar I have a better suggestion, which will save time, energy, money, and human work. Don't. Write it yourself. If you can't, don't post.

Why would you want to restrict contributions from people with relevant experience and willingness to share, just because the author ran a spelling and grammar check?

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#174

Post by nkmnz »

adamcharnock wrote: post #148
nkmnz wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this assumes there are no devops/consulting cost to setup something with AWS. My experience is that "the aws way of doing XYZ" is almost as complicated as doing it the non-AWS-way. On top of that: the non-AWS-way is much more portable across hosting providers, so you decrease your business risks considerably.

I wholeheartedly agree, I'm trying to be generous as I know I have a bias here. I think the AWS way made clear sense in the days before the current generation of tooling existed, when we were SSH-ing into our snowflake servers (for example). But now we have tools like Kubernetes/Nomad/OpenShift/etc/etc, the logic just doesn't seem to add up any more. The main argument against it is generally of the form, "Yes, but we…

Can you recommend any resources on how to approach the topic for a startup? Most startups have very similar needs, but every single "batteries included" solution that I've encountered so far explicitly excluded infrastructure and DevOps – either because it's out of scope for the creators, or because that's what they monetize (e.g. supabase).

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#175

Post by supriyo-biswas »

simtel20 wrote: post #173
lproven wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use ChatGPT to fix my spelling and grammar I have a better suggestion, which will save time, energy, money, and human work. Don't. Write it yourself. If you can't, don't post.

Why would you want to restrict contributions from people with relevant experience and willingness to share, just because the author ran a spelling and grammar check?

Everyone claims it’s a spelling and grammar check, but it’s the OP trying to spread “we tried running self-managed clusters on Hetzner and it only saved us 20% while being a chore in terms of upkeep” into a full essay that causes all that annoying filler.

You’d assume people would use tools to deliver a better and well composed message; whereas most people try to use LLMs to decompress their text into an inefficient representation. Why this is I have no idea, but I’d rather have the raw unfiltered thought from a fellow human rather than someone trying to sound fancy and important.

Not to say I still find the 20% claim a little suspect.

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#176

Post by theshrike79 »

simtel20 wrote: post #173
lproven wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use ChatGPT to fix my spelling and grammar I have a better suggestion, which will save time, energy, money, and human work. Don't. Write it yourself. If you can't, don't post.

Why would you want to restrict contributions from people with relevant experience and willingness to share, just because the author ran a spelling and grammar check?

Unless the spelling and grammar is HORRENDOUS people won't really care. Bad English is the words most used language, we all deal with it every day.

Just using your browser's built-in proofreader is enough in 99.9% of the cases.

Using ChatGPT to rewrite your ideas will make them feel formulaic (LLMs have a style and people exposed to them will spot it instantly, like a code smell) and usually needlessly verbose.

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#177

Post by ratg13 »

0xFF0123 wrote: post #112
supriyo-biswas wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely some ChatGPT output being posted here and your post history also has a lot of this "While X, Y also does Z. Y already overlaps with X" output. I'd like to see your breakdowns as well, given that the cost difference between a 2 vCPU, 4GB configuration (as an example) and a similar configuration on AWS is priced much higher. There's also https://github.com/kube-hetzner/terraform-hcloud-kube-hetzne...…

While I agree that your characterisation is true for a lot of chatgpt output, it can also be true for a human explaining their nuanced point of view.

Most humans don't say a couple sentences and then re-summarize them 3 more times unless they are speaking to someone with a learning disability.

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#178

Post by adamcharnock »

nkmnz wrote: post #174
adamcharnock wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree, I'm trying to be generous as I know I have a bias here. I think the AWS way made clear sense in the days before the current generation of tooling existed, when we were SSH-ing into our snowflake servers (for example). But now we have tools like Kubernetes/Nomad/OpenShift/etc/etc, the logic just doesn't seem to add up any more. The main argument against it is generally of the form, "Yes, but we…

Can you recommend any resources on how to approach the topic for a startup? Most startups have very similar needs, but every single "batteries included" solution that I've encountered so far explicitly excluded infrastructure and DevOps – either because it's out of scope for the creators, or because that's what they monetize (e.g. supabase).

How about we have a chat? I think it is hard for startups to justify implementing this infrastructure from scratch because that is a lot of time & skills that are really best focussed elsewhere.

Ping me an email (see bio), always happy to chat.

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#179

Post by tuukkah »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #175
simtel20 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want to restrict contributions from people with relevant experience and willingness to share, just because the author ran a spelling and grammar check?

Everyone claims it’s a spelling and grammar check, but it’s the OP trying to spread “we tried running self-managed clusters on Hetzner and it only saved us 20% while being a chore in terms of upkeep” into a full essay that causes all that annoying filler. You’d assume people would use tools to deliver a better and well composed message; whereas most people try to use LLMs to decompress their text into an inefficient…

You do realize it wasn't "saved us 20%" but "Hetzner can sometimes be as low as 20% of an equivalent AWS bill" ie saved 80%?

Re: Kubernetes on Hetzner: cutting my infra bill by 75%

#180

Post by mbreese »

simtel20 wrote: post #173
lproven wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use ChatGPT to fix my spelling and grammar I have a better suggestion, which will save time, energy, money, and human work. Don't. Write it yourself. If you can't, don't post.

Why would you want to restrict contributions from people with relevant experience and willingness to share, just because the author ran a spelling and grammar check?

It’s overkill for this audience. HN is pretty forgiving of spelling and grammar mistakes, so long as the main information is clear. I’d encourage anyone that wants to share a comment here to not use an LLM to help, but just try your best to write it out yourself.

Really - your comment on its own is good enough without the LLM. (And if you find an error, you can always edit!)

If we really wanted ChatGPT’s input on a topic (or a rewording of your comment), we can always ask ChatGPT ourselves.

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