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The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

downtowndougbrown.com

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Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

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The Y capacitor is needed to allow the EMI to have a way to ground from the output rather than going out and getting radiated by the output lines.

I don’t believe for a second that this is actually necessary in a way results in that spicy feeling. I do believe that it’s far cheaper to use a Y capacitor than to come up with a better filter network that works well, though.

Common mode noise filtering is either going to be purely inductive or need a Y-cap. No other way around it.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or much shorter, around two years, if it was part of the Capacitor Plague. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague#Premature_fai... The normal lifespan of a non-solid electrolytic capacitor of consumer quality, typically rated at 2000 h/85 °C and operating at 40 °C, is roughly 6 years. It can be more than 10 years for a 1000 h/105 °C capacitor operating at 40 °C. Electrolytic capacitors that operate at a lower…

This is also why so many LED bulbs are shit, lots of heat in a small space full of electrolytic caps.

Recently read that if you are going to be using an LED bulb in an enclosed space, buy bulbs designed for the high temperature, otherwise you WILL get premature failures in bulbs that will last for years in ordinary lamps.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=led+bulbs+enclosed+fixture+ra...

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#173
post #171
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe for a second that this is actually necessary in a way results in that spicy feeling. I do believe that it’s far cheaper to use a Y capacitor than to come up with a better filter network that works well, though.

Common mode noise filtering is either going to be purely inductive or need a Y-cap. No other way around it.

One can build lots of things out of inductors and capacitors. I bet it’s possible and even fairly straightforward to built a little network to allow high frequencies to pass from output to the two line inputs with low impedance but that has extremely high impedance at 50 and 60 Hz (and maybe even at the first few harmonics). It would add components, cost and volume.

I bet this could be done at the output side, too. And a company like Apple that values the customer experience could try to build a filter on their laptop DC inputs to reduce touch currents experienced by the user when connected to a leaky power supply. Of course, the modern design where the charging port is part of a metallic case might make this rather challenging…

(Seriously, IMO all the recent MacBook Air case designs are obnoxious. They have the touch current issue and they’re nasty feeling and sharp-edged.)

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

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Checks out, most boards are made with very conservative amounts of decoupling capacitance because it’s way easier than dealing with random failures due to not enough capacitance

I've understood that capacitors can be used for timing, or smoothing a voltage after a power regulator (I think). How/what does adding capacitance help with?

Smoothing is part of the story: but the important question is what is causing the roughness? Switch mode power supplies have inherent output ripple that can be filtered, but that’s distinct from transient variations in the load. Decoupling capacitors are used to provide a low impedance path at high frequencies i.e. fighting inductance.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#176

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Intentional planned consumption/obsolescence by design. This class of problem is where under-regulation and lack of standards benefits only sellers and cheats buyers. PS: Also, Amazon should be required to test all of the electronic, safety, and food products on its site such that they can prove safety and standards conformance.

> Intentional planned consumption/obsolescence No it isn't. It is simply optimization of price and the features/form-factor that many buyers have demanded. If anything, the lifespan of a ~$1.50 household LED bulb is quite incredible. I'm not sure exactly how anyone would be able to increase the lifespan at that price point and keep the traditional Edison form factor. > Amazon should be required to test all [..] produ…

> If anything, the lifespan of a ~$1.50 household LED bulb is quite incredible. I'm not sure exactly how anyone would be able to increase the lifespan at that price point and keep the traditional Edison form factor.

I don't think I've had any last more than 5 years.

If you bought a cutting edge LED bulb back in 2002 or so, those had a life expectancy of over 60 years, and the build quality was such that you could reasonably expect to get that.

There are plenty of teardowns on YT showing how poorly even major brand name LED bulbs are put together.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#177

What’s the liquid in the old capacitors? PCBs? (as in polychlorinated biphenyls… that abbreviation collision always annoyed me.) I think I know exactly enough about electronics to ask more annoying questions than someone who doesn’t know anything at all.

"Wet" capacitors contain any number of liquid electrolytes. Could be something tame like ethylene glycol, boric acid, sulfuric acid, or nastier stuff like organic solvents (DMF or DMA which are poisonous, or GBL which is less lethal).

Nothing as bad as PCBs as far as I'm aware.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#178

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>There are many use cases for which a decade-old computer is still perfectly serviceable and even where they aren't, those computers can be repurposed for the ones that are. It depends. Older computers usually guzzle power, especially if you look at the absolutely awful Pentium4 systems. You're probably better off getting a RasPi or something, depending on what exactly you're trying to do. Newer systems have gotten m…

> Older computers usually guzzle power, especially if you look at the absolutely awful Pentium4 systems. Even many Pentium 4-based systems would idle around 30 watts and peak at a little over 100, which is on par with a lot of modern desktops, and there were lower and higher power systems both then and now. The top end Pentium 4 had a TDP of 115W vs. 170W for the current top end Ryzen 9000 and even worse for current…

>The top end Pentium 4 had a TDP of 115W vs. 170W for the current top end Ryzen 9000 and even worse for current Intel.

You can't compare CPUs based on TDP; it's an almost entirely useless measurement. The only thing it's good for is making sure you have a sufficient heatsink and cooling system, because it tells you only the peak power consumption of the chip. No one runs their CPUs flat-out all the time unless it's some kind of data center or something; we're talking about PCs here.

What's important is idle CPU power consumption, and that's significantly better these days.

>older phones or tablets with That's an entirely different situation because of the closed and vendor-controlled nature of those systems. They're not PCs; they're basically appliances. It's a shitty situation, but there's not much people can do about it, though many have tried (CyanogenMod, GrapheneOS, etc.).

>Plenty of others who don't even care about 4k

Not everyone cares about 4k, it's true (personally I like it but it's not that much better than 1080p). But if you can't tell the difference between 1080p and an NTSC TV, you're blind.

>1080p TVs and even some 720p TVs are still sold new

Yes, as I said before, we're seeing diminishing returns. (Or should I say "diminishing discernable improvements"?)

Also, the 720p stuff is only in very small (relatively) screens. You're not going to find a 75" TV with 720p or even 1080p; those are all 4k. The low-res stuff is relegated to very small budget models where it's really pointless to have such high resolution.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are many use cases for which a decade-old computer is still perfectly serviceable and even where they aren't, those computers can be repurposed for the ones that are. It depends. Older computers usually guzzle power, especially if you look at the absolutely awful Pentium4 systems. You're probably better off getting a RasPi or something, depending on what exactly you're trying to do. Newer systems have gotten m…

> Older computers usually guzzle power, especially if you look at the absolutely awful Pentium4 systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_proces... The Northwood chips were 50 to 70 W. HT chips and later Prescott chips were more 80 to 90 W. Even the highest chips I see on the page are only 115 W. But modern chips can use way more power than Pentium 4 chips: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_La…

As I said in a sister comment here, you can't compare CPUs by TDP. No one runs their CPU flat-out all the time on a PC. Idle power is the important metric.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#180

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5 years? Is that really true? I’m currently using an LG from 2017 and cannot imagine needing to change it. I would be shocked if it stopped working.

I have an LG OLED from 2017. It started getting really bad screen burn/pixel degredation just after the 6 year mark (6 year warranty), I did a quick search on Youtube, and lo-and-behold, a whole bunch of other people, with the same model, started having the same screen burn-in issues at the same age! It covers the middle third of the screen, top to bottom, and the entire bottom 1/4 of the screen with some odd spots a…

OLED screens are known for having burn-in problems like this. LCDs don't, though they probably have issues with backlights becoming dim with age.
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