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Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

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Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#171

Post by throwaway14356 »

throwaway14356 wrote: post #36
denkmoon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

god... 133kg down to 88kg, that's like a dream to me. Years of trying to get under 100 by 'traditional' calorie restriction diet & exercise.

some fun study sort of concluded that the ratio carbs vs fat and protine is the entire mechanic. fat people who eat almost nothing eat only carbs thin people who can eat huge amounts every day eat a lot of fat and protein. Both eat other things just not as much.

I really eat a lot. When my gf cooked more and the potato meat ratio changed from 1:3 to 3:1 I immediately started to grow fat. I had her adjust it to 1:1 and started eating lots of sausages and chicken legs between meals. 500g to a kg per day worth of extra food. My body fat declined rapidly.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#173

Post by bcoates »

_heimdall wrote: post #145
NotYourLawyer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, that comment was about the claim: > emerging research showing that up to 40 per cent of the weight lost by people using weight-loss drugs is actually muscle Which is… obviously bullshit.

The source article links to a reference for the 40 percent claim, which itself links to a couple articles that aren't available without a JAMA account. I can't read the original sources there, but what makes you say its obviously bullshit?

From the abstract:

"Studies suggest muscle loss with these medications (as indicated by decreases in fat-free mass [FFM]) ranges from 25% to 39% of the total weight lost over 36–72 weeks. This substantial muscle loss can be largely attributed to the magnitude of weight loss, rather than by an independent effect of GLP-1 receptor agonists, although this hypothesis must be tested. By comparison, non-pharmacological caloric restriction studies with smaller magnitudes of weight loss result in 10–30% FFM losses."

The "surprising" part is kinda bullshit, and implies there's something special about glp-1s. It is the opposite of surprising that weight loss includes a lean mass loss.

That said, being skinnyfat is probably bad for you and the idea that you should work to preserve/build muscle and not only lose weight is a good one.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#174

Post by seizethecheese »

talkingtab wrote: post #96

It concerns me how discussions, such as this one go on HN. This is an important topic. With the epidemic of obesity we now find a drug that appeals to a large number of people. This is an important topic as well. What is the current comment receiving most of the comment? "That's the sort of headlines that smells like bullshit to me" That's the sort of comment that smells like bullshit to me. What kind of place is thi…

Disagree. The “hacker ethos”, to me, is laypeople taking a crack at things without pretension.

Your comment lacks any substantive argument about the comment you complain about.

Apparently the topic is “important”. To me an appeal to importance when policing style spells like bullshit.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#175

Post by mr_toad »

bcoates wrote: post #173
_heimdall wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source article links to a reference for the 40 percent claim, which itself links to a couple articles that aren't available without a JAMA account. I can't read the original sources there, but what makes you say its obviously bullshit?

From the abstract: "Studies suggest muscle loss with these medications (as indicated by decreases in fat-free mass [FFM]) ranges from 25% to 39% of the total weight lost over 36–72 weeks. This substantial muscle loss can be largely attributed to the magnitude of weight loss, rather than by an independent effect of GLP-1 receptor agonists, although this hypothesis must be tested. By comparison, non-pharmacological cal…

FFM isn’t entirely muscle, but what other weight would be shed when losing FFM other than muscle?

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#176

Post by nordsieck »

mr_toad wrote: post #175
bcoates wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the abstract: "Studies suggest muscle loss with these medications (as indicated by decreases in fat-free mass [FFM]) ranges from 25% to 39% of the total weight lost over 36–72 weeks. This substantial muscle loss can be largely attributed to the magnitude of weight loss, rather than by an independent effect of GLP-1 receptor agonists, although this hypothesis must be tested. By comparison, non-pharmacological cal…

FFM isn’t entirely muscle, but what other weight would be shed when losing FFM other than muscle?

> FFM isn’t entirely muscle, but what other weight would be shed when losing FFM other than muscle?

I'm not an expert, but I have to imagine that most of it is muscle.

After dramatic weight loss, a person will probably lose some bone - particularly in the lower body - due to decreased loading.

I know body builders sometimes eat extremely high protein diets (more than 1 g/lbs of body weight) and lift quite hard to try to hang on to as much muscle mass as possible. And they still lose some when cutting.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#177

Post by cthalupa »

mr_toad wrote: post #175
bcoates wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the abstract: "Studies suggest muscle loss with these medications (as indicated by decreases in fat-free mass [FFM]) ranges from 25% to 39% of the total weight lost over 36–72 weeks. This substantial muscle loss can be largely attributed to the magnitude of weight loss, rather than by an independent effect of GLP-1 receptor agonists, although this hypothesis must be tested. By comparison, non-pharmacological cal…

FFM isn’t entirely muscle, but what other weight would be shed when losing FFM other than muscle?

Water weight is a big one, and is part of your FFM. I lost 10lb of water weight in my first 24 hours on tirzepatide.

Some of it is likely bone density as well. You can prevent the bone density and muscle loss with proper diet and exercise, though.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#178

Post by NavinF »

kbos87 wrote: post #137

There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.

Yeah I've always found that complaint confusing. Of course you lose muscle when you eat less food. It'd be weird if that didn't happen. (Assuming you don't train hard or take hormones)

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#180

Post by cthalupa »

kbos87 wrote: post #137

There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.

Yep. I started resistance training 5x a week about a month in on tirzepatide and even with a severely restricted caloric intake (I just can't eat enough), I've gained LBM.
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