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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

cnn.com

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#171

Post by mantas »

meiraleal wrote: post #139
polotics wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nato is a defensive alliance against any offensive act. Russia, ...as in: the mafia of the few profiteering rulers currently at the helm, is not fighting back anything. Firstly, its mad Ukrainian adventure has meant it has made its border very defence-free on its border with Nato countries. Secondly, it is constantly attacking in hybrid warfare mode, paying local lowlife to do propaganda graffiti and sabotage. The ap…

[flagged]

Coming from eastern europe… To us russia is the coloniser to us. What „West“ did in „global south“, russia just did the same to its neighbors. Even including racisty-chauvinisty element.

Unfortunately russia has the strength to rape & pillage through neighbors once in a while.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#172

Post by johnisgood »

petre wrote: post #91
tetrisgm wrote: post #60

The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with. We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

Best course of action at this time would be to properly arm Ukraine.

Which happened and kept happening for a long time now, including the US sending billions of dollars and weapons (among other things). That did not help, did it?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#173

Post by jiggawatts »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #145
grapesodaaaaa wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe a strategic nuke on Kaliningrad if any provocation happens. Surely you must be joking about a first-strike nuclear provocation or larger. I would think almost anything other than a border incursion could be dealt with in other ways. Should Putin be held more accountable for his actions? Absolutely, but a nuclear response is not going to go well unless absolutely justified.

Fear is the greatest weapon. You can keep sanctioning them, but you’ll never get anywhere. Give nukes to Ukraine, even pretend ones and war will end in minutes.

Imagine an enraged man ready to punch an aggressor in the face being held back by his friends.

You propose to walk up to him, have him released and give him a loaded gun.

The world would blame you, not the wound up man itching for revenge.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#174

Post by tyfon »

Etheryte wrote: post #56

So to keep score, in the last year we've seen cables sabotaged between Finland and Germany, Lithuania and Sweden, Estonia and Sweden, Estonia and Finland. Any others I missed? You might say it's too early to call it sabotage, but the earliest two cable incidents were exactly the same, so it's hardly a coincidence at this point.

Between mainland Norway and Svalbard.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40484591

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#175

Post by buran77 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #126
abraxas wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> problem starts if (when?) Trump and his clown posse turns the US into a similar setup Lots of institutional checks in America that post-Soviet Russia lacked.

> Lots of institutional checks

You're right but given enough time of the "right" type of people entrenching their power (which of course may not be "one term" but that could be enough to put things on a path), and even the best of checks and defense mechanisms start to evaporate or just become a tool against what they were intended to defend.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#176

Post by maximilianburke »

PKop wrote: post #125
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation If only there were someone applying pressure to Russia we could have fight for us!

So sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder? What has that accomplished so far?

Given that Russia is invading them and that they are showing no reluctance to stand up to them, yes? Arm them, give them everything they need without restriction and Russia will be sent home to their borders, bloodied and cowed.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#177

Post by johnisgood »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #145
grapesodaaaaa wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe a strategic nuke on Kaliningrad if any provocation happens. Surely you must be joking about a first-strike nuclear provocation or larger. I would think almost anything other than a border incursion could be dealt with in other ways. Should Putin be held more accountable for his actions? Absolutely, but a nuclear response is not going to go well unless absolutely justified.

Fear is the greatest weapon. You can keep sanctioning them, but you’ll never get anywhere. Give nukes to Ukraine, even pretend ones and war will end in minutes.

Highly doubt.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#178

Post by JumpCrisscross »

PKop wrote: post #166
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder? To the extent there's a meat grinder, it's of Russians [1]. > What has that accomplished so far? Russia's disqualifying itself as a conventional military threat for at least a generation. It's not yet there yet, largely because Ukraine has been unable to target its war marchine. But the startling inefficacy of its army and technology has been made clear. Moreover,…

>To the extent there's a meat grinder, it's of Russians It's of both. Why deny the fact Ukrainian men are dying in droves? This is disrespectful of those that paid the ultimate sacrifice. Pretending this is not extremely costly to Ukraine in manpower is denying reality. They have been increasing the age of conscripts as they're running out of young men.

> Why deny the fact Ukrainian men are dying in droves?

Nobody is. Meat grinder means excessive loss relative to necessity. The Ukranians are being slaughtered, but not mindlessly. They're fighting efficiently in respect of manpower.

Also, had we given Ukraine all the weapons it asked for in 2022, we probably wouldn't have had a meat grinder.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#180

Post by PKop »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #169
PKop wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we could have fight for us C'mon. Their funding is entirely US dependent. What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. How could you possibly ask the question "what business is that of ours"? Explain yourself, that question is absurd.

> What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. They clearly want to fight! This is like arguing giving someone chemo is enabling their cancer.

Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? They are running out of men they can find to fight, and for quite a while the government and military used very aggressive methods to force men into service. There is a huge desertion problem, in the military and the country itself. A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraine-running-out-s...

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