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Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

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Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#171

Post by akira2501 »

wkyleg wrote: post #168

Yes, in terms of market share. But the key difference is that it's leagues better than other browser engines on quality. From the perspective of competition this isn't great, but the network effects are hard to ignore. Firefox and Safari (webkit) just tend not to work as well. It's very different in terms of quality though. Internet Explorer was a terrible browser and often lagging in implementing standards. The bett…

Internet Explorer was an attempt to monopolize and control the early internet. They intentionally left standards unimplemented or just implemented their own insane version of them in order to trap people into the platform.

It's no wonder the product saw them taken to court over antitrust violations.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#173

Post by thayne »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #129
lxgr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not Chrome's fault for third party developers being lazy and not supporting Firefox. What if it's Google themselves? From my original post: > [...] and that often includes Google sites/apps

[Citation Needed] What google site or service requires Chrome?

I don't know of anything that is completely broken, but some functionality requiers chrome:

On Google Docs, paste as markdown, copy and paste from menus, paste without formatting, etc. only works on chrome. This functionality could be done with standard APIs, but instead google uses a hidden, pre-installed extension to implement it.

Offline mode doesn't work on firefox for either gmail or google docs.

Google doodles don't show up on Firefox Mobile, unless you spoof a chrome user agent.

Youtube has repeatedly had serious performance problems on Firefox.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#174

Post by [deleted] »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #96

No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…

[deleted]

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#175

Post by dudhejffj »

bloppe wrote: post #163
onion2k wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is the last man standing before a ChromeOS world. Except it isn't. Maybe I'm being slightly obtuse here, but the world is not "Chrome Vs Safari". It's "Chrome Vs Safari Vs native apps". If Safari dies we'll be in a world of "Chrome Vs native apps", and that is what Apple wants. Browsers represent a way to deliver software to users that's outside of Apple's revenue mechanisms. Apple have every incentive to keep…

Am I the only one left happily using Firefox? You know, the only "major" browser that doesn't seem to have these conflicts of interest?

I use Firefox Mobile but have long abandoned the desktop offering. The only thing I feel like I get from the desktop version lately is a spiritual victory whereas the mobile browser actually has tangible features I prefer like add-ons and the search bar at the bottom.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#176

Post by fellowniusmonk »

yoavm wrote: post #135
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #96

No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…

> Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change I think the biggest issue with IE6 was not the hostile moves Microosft did, it is that it didn't do anything. The browser was just frozen. That's why it was relatively easy for Firefox to take a marketshare. Frankly, with some of the APIs Google are adding to Chrome, I'd rather they'd do a little less.

That and browser sniffing to serve intentionally broken CSS on Microsoft's websites to competitors like Opera, I remember this because it directly effected me at the time.

I mean at least we still have websites like this from over 20 years ago that still document the bullshit, people who weren't there CANNOT fathom the how despicable they were.

https://www.wiumlie.no/2003/2/msn/

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#177

Post by jgtrosh »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #165
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #96

No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…

The audience for computers in 2024 has grown to maybe 1,000x what it was in 2008. Everyone has to rediscover the meaning of being able to choose.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273018/number-of-interne... maybe 3.7x

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#178

Post by thephyber »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #96

No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…

I think some of the complaints in the article were about websites using User Agent string to detect compatibility, rather than individual feature sniffing.

In that small complaint, I would agree. But I think the fault is mostly with the website owners, not with the browser.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#179

Post by JimDabell »

ericwood wrote: post #119
crowcroft wrote: post #97

Yes, Chrome is the de facto standard, and often the only browser thoroughly tested against. Even now though it isn't as dominant as IE at its peak though. No, Chrome isn't significantly behind on adopting new standards compared with other major browsers (I'm looking at you Safari). IE6 to IE7 was about five years!

I see so many ideological arguments around "X is the new IE" that neglect one of the worst pieces of IE 6's reign of terror: the stagnation. Working around all of its quirks and non-standard behavior had an extremely long half-life; the venn diagram of things that worked correctly across all major browsers at the time was very complex and messy. Even with the release of IE7 it took many years for people to adopt it,…

> one of the worst pieces of IE 6's reign of terror: the stagnation.

This is the thing that I think developers today don’t seem to be able to get their head around. There was a fourteen year time period between Internet Explorer 6 being released and when it dropped out of usage worldwide. Even if you only had to support the USA, it was still eleven years. People could go their entire careers without ever knowing what it was like not having to support it. It paralysed front-end development for more than a decade.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#180

Post by vetinari »

jasode wrote: post #154
nightski wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this because I have used Firefox exclusively since it first came out and never run into broken sites. What exactly are these exotic sites you are visiting that break in Firefox? You mentioned an elusive government website but I have used many (IRS, SSA, Edu, etc...)

>What exactly are these exotic sites you are visiting that break in Firefox? In my case, an example of a non-exotic site is Youtube streaming 4k 60fps videos. I tried with latest Firefox a few months ago and it was still stuttering and glitchy. But Chrome plays smoothly with no issues. I previously mentioned that 4k playback has been a long-standing issue: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28783904 On one hand, my…

Never seen this; however, youtube prefers pushing VP9 over H.264. Maybe your computer cannot use hardware decode for VP9 and can for H.264? (Since you mentioned, it is an older one). Maybe the h264ify extension would help.

What firefox cannot do and chrome can is HDR playback.

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