Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#171

Post by notyourwork » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 9:59 PM UTC

bongodongobob wrote: post #126

notyourwork wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one that is not excited about the next four years being constant banter of this nature? I loathe it. Nothing personal against your comment but the new administration hasn't even gone into office and I cannot get away from this.

[flagged]

Try not to dismiss my comment for what it is. I'm not taking a stance on political affiliation or preference. I'm trying to highlight a behavior that is the result of elections of recent past. I'm not excited about another 4 years where communication diminishes to snarky comments that point finger at the side they oppose. It makes me want to just go outside and smell the fresh air.

I come to HN for substantial conversation, not this elementary unsubstantial conversation.

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#172

Post by MBCook » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 9:59 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #160

kevinqi wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the distracted driving part, which is real, there are two physical aspects of the model 3 that I find to be safety issues as well-- the two front windshield beams are thick and add a sort of blind spot, and the side mirrors don't give you great field of view.

It is a problem with most modern cars, and it is actually for safety reasons. These beams have to support the entire weight of the car in case it flips over in order to protect the occupants.

A rule we have due to giant high center of gravity SUVs. Rollovers weren’t as big a problem when everyone had sedans.

A car should survive a rollover. But when you make them big & heavy, those pillars have to be big and thick and you get large blind spots.

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#173

Post by _blk » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 10:00 PM UTC

throwaway425933 wrote: post #151

notyourwork wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one that is not excited about the next four years being constant banter of this nature? I loathe it. Nothing personal against your comment but the new administration hasn't even gone into office and I cannot get away from this.

>> but the new administration hasn't even gone into office and I cannot get away from this. Well, it cuts both ways. New administration should not be talking till they are in office.

Respectfully, why not? That's the whole point of campaigning. I seriously hope an incoming administration has a plan before they get to office. "I wouldn't change anything" fortunately doesn't seem to win elections when everything's sideways.

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#174

Post by _dark_matter_ » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #143

altairprime wrote: post #51

The linked study is better: https://www.iseecars.com/most-dangerous-cars-study#v=2024

> “Most of these vehicles received excellent safety ratings, performing well in crash tests at the IIHS and NHTSA, so it’s not a vehicle design issue,” said Brauer. “The models on this list likely reflect a combination of driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to increased crashes and fatalities.” Quoting what's easily the most important passage in that study. The two Teslas on the list are the Model Y, righ…

That just assumes that the crash tests are good indicators of actual safety. My understanding is that car manufacturers could go much further in the name of safety, but do just enough to scrape by on those crash tests. So there could definitely be differentials in terms of safety even among cars that have perfect safety measures from IIHS/NHTSA.

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#175

Post by aziaziazi » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #90

oblio wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't each major government do independent safety testing/has independent safety requirements, anyway?

VW diesel-gate How many of the independents caught that?

Diesel gate involved also many others manufacturers

> Opel (General Motors) publicly demonstrated (while representatives from the TÜV Hessen were present) a Zafira that met the NOx emission limits. At the same time, Opel started clandestinely pushing an engine software update that limited NOx emissions in Zafiras that were already on the road.

> German newspaper Bild am Sonntag reported that US authorities investigating Mercedes have discovered that its vehicles are equipped with illegal software to help them pass United States' stringent emission tests. The claimed defeat devices include a Bit 15 mode to switch off emissions control after 16 miles of driving (the length of an official U.S. emissions test), and Slipguard which tries to directly determine if the car is being tested based on speed and acceleration profiles

> Dodge Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee trucks, had software that allowed them to exceed NOx pollution limits, undetected by the usual testing methods.

> BMW was sued in 2018 when certain models were named as producing several times more nitrogen oxide emissions than laboratory tests indicated

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#176

Post by MBCook » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #44

> The study was conducted on model year 2018–2022 vehicles, and focused on crashes between 2017 and 2022 that resulted in occupant fatalities. Teslas can go fast real fast, so naively this is the result I would expect given how they have filtered the data. In other words, unless they controlled for this, this would be biased by natural selection playing out. Having said that, as someone who had a couple of close call…

> In other words, unless they controlled for this, this would be biased by natural selection playing out.

Why should they control for it? It’s a natural consequence of Tesla’s design choices, not a total coincidence that Tesla had no control over.

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#177

Post by ggurface » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

doctorpangloss wrote: post #144

akira2501 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that would be Texas. Texas has more road fatalities than California. This is _not_ per capita, but in total, which is an interesting statistical point in and of itself. The data is really easy to get. I wish more people would avail themselves of it.

Huh? I agree that there are way too many DUI deaths everywhere. The thing I am mocking is this idea that "MY group DOESN'T have these problems and YOUR group DOES." In one case, the group is Tesla owners; another case, the group was, I guess, trees on roads; another was people who drink and drive - a typical HN reader, I am confident, believes that he does not belong to that group. And yet. Perhaps there is a group t…

Your point didn't come across at all.

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#178

Post by bonestamp2 » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

Koala_ice wrote: post #14

I thoroughyl expect the Deparment of Government Efficiency to recommend U.S. Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) be shut down to save previous taxpayer dollars.

If that happens, that would be the most efficient form of regulatory capture yet!

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#179

Post by fundad » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 10:03 PM UTC

notyourwork wrote: post #117

Koala_ice wrote: post #14

I thoroughyl expect the Deparment of Government Efficiency to recommend U.S. Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) be shut down to save previous taxpayer dollars.

Am I the only one that is not excited about the next four years being constant banter of this nature? I loathe it. Nothing personal against your comment but the new administration hasn't even gone into office and I cannot get away from this.

[flagged]

Re: Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

#180

Post by almatabata » Fri, Nov 15, 2024, 10:03 PM UTC

postalrat wrote: post #108

littlestymaar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can load the cars with safety features, but it doesn't change the fact that these cars are very heavy Being heavy is actually a safety feature of sort (but just for the people inside the car, it increases overall fatality).

It ain't working then because these heavy cars tend to have more fatalities.

The study seems to contradict this: "When broken out by size, small cars have the highest fatal accident rate while midsize and full-size cars are both below average."

And later in the study, “When two small cars collide the forces are equalized and both vehicles tend to hold up well. But if a compact hatchback and a full-size pickup truck try to occupy the same space at the same time, the smaller car always loses.”