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Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#171

Post by tokinonagare »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #128
golemotron wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative, giving them a password that gives them read/write access to sensitive systems, would be insane. Subpoena for particular data.

Yeah it's hard to see how any French official would have authority to conduct searches 10 meters beyond French borders, let alone over all of Uber's computers located in dozens of other countries.

If a company is doing business here, the actual location of file is irrelevant.

Also when the government is really motivated, he can arrested the founders or executives directly (Pavel Durov). Which is what they should do to Netflix execs if they are doing business illegally.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#172

Post by bogeholm »

red_trumpet wrote: post #150
croes wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just demand the data per warrant and if you don’t deliver you go to jail for obstruction of justice

Is that true? I'm not a lawyer but AFAIU, you don't have to provide incriminating evidence against yourself?

It’s more or less the dictionary definition of ‘subpoena’ eg. [0]:

> under penalty (you shall bring with you)

[0]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subpoena%20duces%...

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#173

Post by fossislife »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #158
telotortium wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think any of these kill switches involved deleting data, just temporarily removing access of systems in the affected office.

Not a lawyer, but let’s say the cops were searching my house. If I threw the keys to my unbreakable safe out the window, such that they could never be found, I doubt a judge would care for the distinction. That the evidence exists but cannot be accessed is still going to find you in contempt.

As long as no police has confiscated (in most countries this involves the police man touching it, I bet) the equipment you can break it or make it inaccessibility however you like. It's your stuff, after all.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#174

Post by mewse-hn »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #158
telotortium wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think any of these kill switches involved deleting data, just temporarily removing access of systems in the affected office.

Not a lawyer, but let’s say the cops were searching my house. If I threw the keys to my unbreakable safe out the window, such that they could never be found, I doubt a judge would care for the distinction. That the evidence exists but cannot be accessed is still going to find you in contempt.

That metaphor doesn't seem directly applicable to cutting off cloud access.

If we're trying for a metaphor that would be a similar situation pre-digitization, the cloud servers containing business documents could be considered head office, and the office being raided would be the branch office. The branch office would continually be communicating with head office for their operations, and that communication would be shut down during the raid.

This isn't a great metaphor because the "head office" has become sort of stateless and ephemeral with digitization, but that's part of the interesting question the OP was posing, how does law enforcement collect evidence when that evidence is hosted on cloud servers in nebulous datacenters?

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#176

Post by mindslight »

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #107

How about just get rid of double taxation in corporate taxes? Eventually, taxes will get paid via distributions or sale of stock by individuals.

Why not advocate for taxing only corporations, rather than the more oppressive direction of taxing only humans? Corporations intrinsically run on accounting report paperwork, meaning tax forms are an incremental cost rather than a novel burden. And they receive massive benefits from the state - liability protection, outsized access to the legal system, and often direct subsidies.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#177

Post by svieira »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #158
telotortium wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think any of these kill switches involved deleting data, just temporarily removing access of systems in the affected office.

Not a lawyer, but let’s say the cops were searching my house. If I threw the keys to my unbreakable safe out the window, such that they could never be found, I doubt a judge would care for the distinction. That the evidence exists but cannot be accessed is still going to find you in contempt.

Now let's say that instead you threw the keys to your unbreakable safe to your friend across the Atlantic Ocean. And you say that you didn't know that the people entering were cops. And your friend won't give the keys back. The evidence may exist, you cannot access it, neither can the police. The court has no jurisdiction over your friend and you have no authority to force your friend to give you the keys back.

At that point, whether you are in contempt or not depends on the answer to the question "did you know that the cops were entering to look for evidence before you threw the keys?" Whether the judge holds you in contempt or not is a function of the free choice of the judge and is not related to the answer to the first question (though whether or not the judge should hold you in contempt is a function of what the judge believes about what you believed).

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#178

Post by jjallen »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #158
telotortium wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think any of these kill switches involved deleting data, just temporarily removing access of systems in the affected office.

Not a lawyer, but let’s say the cops were searching my house. If I threw the keys to my unbreakable safe out the window, such that they could never be found, I doubt a judge would care for the distinction. That the evidence exists but cannot be accessed is still going to find you in contempt.

This is like not giving them the password to your phone which I thought was protected at least in the US. They’re both literally keys.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#179

Post by dangsucksdick1 »

thrw42A8N wrote: post #148
lm28469 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how it works, they lose money everywhere but one of the smallest country they operate in banks 50% of their worldwide revenues, it probably is just a coincidence that this is a tax heaven... we just don't know I guess The French branch made 160k of profit while the Irish branch made more than all the other EU countries combined FYI: france is the second market for airbnb after the US... do you really think they…

I don't know why you're telling me this, I know it - and it's not relevant at all without knowing the numbers.

[dead]

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#180

Post by charlieyu1 »

chollida1 wrote: post #160
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be illegal? Isn't it akin to "right to remain silent"? Why the need to present any information to police unless it is asked by court. Assuming that they didn't delete the data, just moved it to somewhere safe where it couldn't directly be taken away. We had a raid in one of my previous company due to copyright violation due to a user uploaded content. Authorities came in to take in all the codebase, rep…

Because the government already has a warrant to obtain this evidence(they can't raid the office otherwise) and you as the company pushing this button are failing to turn over that evidence.

I guess locally encrypted files in my computer is a problem as well then
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