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Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

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Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#171

I'm making some big assumptions about Adobe's product ideation process, but: This seems like the "right" way to approach developing AI products: Find a user need that can't easily be solved with traditional methods and algorithms, decide that AI is appropriate for that thing, and then build an AI system to solve it. Rather than what many BigTech companies are currently doing: "Wall Street says we need to 'Use AI Some…

That approach makes sense for very specific domain-tethered technologies. But for AI I think letting it loose and allowing people to find their own use cases is an appropriate way to go. I've found valuable use cases with ChatGPT in the first months of its public release that I honestly think we still wouldn't have if it went through a traditional product cycle.

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#172
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all - Transformer was invented by a bunch of former Google employees (while at Google), primarily Jakob Uszkoreit and Noam Shazeer. Of course as with anything it builds on what had gone before, but it's really quite a novel architecture.

The scientific impact of the transformer paper is large, but in my opinion the novelty is vastly overstated. The primary novelty is adapting the (already existing) dot-product attention mechanism to be multi-headed. And frankly, the single-head -> multi-head evolution wasn't particularly novel -- it's the same trick the computer vision community applied to convolutions 5 years earlier, yielding the widely-adopted gro…

I think the most novel part of it, and where a lot of the power comes from, is in the key based attention, which then operationally gives rise to the emergence of induction heads (whereby pair of adjacent layers coordinate to provide a powerful context lookup and copy mechanism).

The reusable/stackable block is of course a key part of the design since the key insight was that language is as much hierarchical as sequential, and can therefore be processed in parallel (not in sequence) with a hierarchical stack of layers that each use the key-based lookup mechanism to access other tokens whether based on position or not.

In any case, if you look at the seq2seq architectures than preceded it, it's hard to claim that the Transformer is really based-on/evolved-from any of them (especially prevailing recurrent approaches), notwithstanding that it obviously leveraged the concept of attention.

I find the developmental history of the Transformer interesting, and wish more had been documented about it. It seems from interview with Uszkoreit that the idea of parallel language processing based on an hierarchical design using self-attention was his, but that he was personally unable to realize this idea in a way that beat other contemporary approaches. Noam Shazeer was the one who then took the idea and realized it in the the form that would eventually become the Transformer, but it seems there was some degree of throw the kitchen sink at it and then a later ablation process to minimize the design. What would be interesting to know would be an honest assessment of how much of the final design was inspiration and how much experimentation. It's hard to imagine that Shazeer anticipated the emergence of induction heads when this model was trained at sufficient scale, so the architecture does seem to at least partly be an a accidental discovery, and more than the next generation seq2seq model that it seems to have been conceived as.

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#173
post #27

I'm making some big assumptions about Adobe's product ideation process, but: This seems like the "right" way to approach developing AI products: Find a user need that can't easily be solved with traditional methods and algorithms, decide that AI is appropriate for that thing, and then build an AI system to solve it. Rather than what many BigTech companies are currently doing: "Wall Street says we need to 'Use AI Some…

It is the 'make something for the user/client' vs. 'make something to sell' mindset. The latter one is what overwhelmingly more companies (not only BigTech, not at all!) adopted nowadays. And Boeing. ;)

If the lore is to be believed, Southwest (a airline that has made its business only the 737) saw the a320 neo and basically told Boeing "give us a new 737 or we go to airbus." they did what the client wanted, to their detriment.

"If I asked people what they wanted they would've said faster horses," or whatever Henry Ford is falsely accused of saying.

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#174
post #96
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have both! Cool features that excite users (and that they ultimately end of using), and that get investors excited. (i.e. Adobe mentioned in the day 1 keynote that Generative Fill, released last year and powered by Adobe Firefly is not one of the top 5 used features in Photoshop). The features we make, and how we use gen ai is based on a lot of discussions and back and forth with the community (both public an…

> is not one of the top 5 used features in Photoshop I mean, is there any Photoshop feature that’s come to dominate people’s workflows so quickly? People (e.g. photographers) who use Photoshop “in anger” for professional use-cases, and who already know how to fix a flaw in an image region without generative fill, aren’t necessarily going to adopt it right out of the gate. They’re going to tinker with it a bit, but ti…

You're super wrong. Pro here working with this stuff for decades.

There was a brief moment in time where freehand was just a better and faster drawing tool than illustrator (which is whats is shown here) but from there on psp, ill & indesign have pretty much killed all competition out there.

The formats they use are sigularly stupid and arcane for legacy reasons, they are all mem hogs and inefficient to the extreme - but nothing beats that unholy trifecta and it is used it or die.

Now to get the point: generative fill is one of the absolute killer features of psp - in an instant it does what could take multiple hours to do previously with 5-10 sec of watching a loader.

There are many mor gamechangers and this really looks like another

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#175

I'm making some big assumptions about Adobe's product ideation process, but: This seems like the "right" way to approach developing AI products: Find a user need that can't easily be solved with traditional methods and algorithms, decide that AI is appropriate for that thing, and then build an AI system to solve it. Rather than what many BigTech companies are currently doing: "Wall Street says we need to 'Use AI Some…

Counterpoint, the pandering to the market has better stock price appreciation :)

Also I am sure Adobe is doing both. They released an OpenAI competitor recently

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital photography started out as a supplementary toy as well. And we are starting to witness a gigantic computational infrastructure pivot with GPU's and NPU's and whatnot. Google and Amazon are literally signing nuclear power plant agreements to power it. AI is a radically new technology. Do you remember two years ago when ChatGPT came out, and people here on HN were confidently declaring it was the end of Google…

Startups during their earliest stages are encouraged to throw spaghetti at the wall specifically because they don't yet have a customers to offend. They have nothing to lose from failing fast. In the 2010's more mature companies explored adopting this same model, especially those that had themselves been founded the decade prior. What came out of it was a lot of spaghetti making a mess all over the walls, and the flo…

> What came out of it was a lot of spaghetti making a mess all over the walls, and the floors, and the ceiling.

I just don't know what you're talking about. What mess? What quality tanked? The picture you're painting is quite simply not what I see. Not at all, not even close.

The tools I use continue to work just fine. And I can point to tons of useful feature improvements and upgrades since the 2010's, that make a meaningful positive difference to both my productivity and my leisure. So I don't want to see companies suddenly become super-conservative in terms of releasing features. I want them to keep doing what they're doing.

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#177

I'm making some big assumptions about Adobe's product ideation process, but: This seems like the "right" way to approach developing AI products: Find a user need that can't easily be solved with traditional methods and algorithms, decide that AI is appropriate for that thing, and then build an AI system to solve it. Rather than what many BigTech companies are currently doing: "Wall Street says we need to 'Use AI Some…

I would interpret it that they're getting the same push from Wall Street and the same investor-hype-driven product leadership as every other tech firm, but this time they have the good fortune to specialize in one of the few verticals (image editing) where generative AI currently has superhuman performance. This is a testable claim: where were Adobe in previous hype cycles? Googles "Adobe Blockchain"...looks like the…

The article says clearly there's no guarantee this feature will be released.

Which I'm reading as "Demo-ready, but far from production-ready."

Somewhat relevant: my experience with Photoshop's Generative Fill has been underwhelming. Sometimes it's wrong, often it's comically wrong. I haven't had many easy wins with it.

IMO this is a company that doodles with code for its own entertainment, not a company that innovates robust and highly useful production-ready features for the benefit of users.

So we'll see if Mr Spinny Dragon makes it to production, and is as useful as billed in the demo.

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#178

I'm making some big assumptions about Adobe's product ideation process, but: This seems like the "right" way to approach developing AI products: Find a user need that can't easily be solved with traditional methods and algorithms, decide that AI is appropriate for that thing, and then build an AI system to solve it. Rather than what many BigTech companies are currently doing: "Wall Street says we need to 'Use AI Some…

Counterpoint, the pandering to the market has better stock price appreciation :) Also I am sure Adobe is doing both. They released an OpenAI competitor recently

Been doing both. Just look at their asset store as of late. Complete mess if you work professionally.

At the same time, apparently their generative autofill is top notch. It's just a shame the industry decided to mix together ML tools with generative art, so that it's hard to tell which from which on a casual glance

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#179
post #127

There are actually multiple open source ML models for 2d to 3d which is clearly what they are doing. The difference with most of them is that this is vectors. There might actually be a similar open source model already. But I think to create it you would build it from a database of 3d assets that you could render from many angles. Probably quite similar to the way the 2d to 3d works. I don't know maybe the typical 2d…

Are you sure that’s what they’re doing? In the demo, they show that the vector sections have been preserved, so there’s clearly more to the story. Maybe 2D -> 3D, map path to vertex, rotate, project path back into 2D?

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#180
> Adobe's Brian Domingo told Creative Bloq that like other Adobe Innovation projects, there's still no guarantee that this feature will be released commercially.

Well, I confess I got a little bit confused here :/ . What's the purpose then for such an innovative solution if not commercialized?!

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