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Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

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Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#171

Post by yamrzou »

jumping_frog wrote: post #113
have_faith wrote: post #79

People always reference 1984 but Orwell’s essay “Pleasure Spots” is probably more relevant to this subject: https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

I think there was a quote by a Nordic writer (possibly Hans Christian Andersen) in which he talked about how circuses and amusement parks keep people distracted and busy so we don't focus on important policy issues. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220818-the-surprisingl... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

La Boétie?

  Plays, farces, spectacles, gladiators, strange beasts, medals, pictures and other such opiates, these were for ancient peoples the bait toward slavery, the price of their liberty, the instruments of tyranny. By these practices and enticements the ancient dictators so successfully lulled their subjects … that the stupified peoples, fascinated by the pastimes and vain pleasures, … learned subservience as naively, bit not so creditably, as little children learn to read by looking at bright picture books.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#172

Post by nick0garvey »

badpun wrote: post #124
helloplanets wrote: post #47

A pernicious excitement to learn and play chess has spread all over the country, and numerous clubs for practicing this game have been formed in cities and villages…chess is a mere amusement of a very inferior character, which robs the mind of valuable time that might be devoted to nobler acquirements … they require out-door exercises–not this sort of mental gladiatorship. A game of chess does not add a single new fa…

There was some chess prodigy who, in his teens, was already winning against most champions, and who in his early twenties abandoned chess altogether, citing it a "waste of life".

Morphy, one of the greatest players of all time, is famous for this.

"The ability to play chess is the sign of a gentleman. The ability to play chess well is the sign of a wasted life."

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#173

Post by specproc »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #128
willguest wrote: post #83

Given that the vast majority of people go to work to earn money for businesses that exist either to exploit natural resources or appreciate in value in the eyes of an economic system that prioritizes increasing capital valuations above all else, including human dignity, long-term survival and the life of other species, I would say we're already there. Talking about a dystopian future is a convenient way to assuade ou…

> Given that the vast majority of people go to work to earn money for businesses that exist either to exploit natural resources ... Or for governments, doing government jobs that produce absolutely nothing of value and force people to waste a big chunk of their lives on administrative tasks...

I come from a town where the biggest employer is the state in a few different forms. I think it's entirely valid for the government to keep them all busy 9-5, salaried and pensioned. Main function of the state IMO.

I don't fear government, I fear the lack of it.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#174

Post by bumby »

llamaimperative wrote: post #155
helloplanets wrote: post #47

A pernicious excitement to learn and play chess has spread all over the country, and numerous clubs for practicing this game have been formed in cities and villages…chess is a mere amusement of a very inferior character, which robs the mind of valuable time that might be devoted to nobler acquirements … they require out-door exercises–not this sort of mental gladiatorship. A game of chess does not add a single new fa…

Is this meant to be an analog to Postman’s argument? Because it isn’t. His argument doesn’t really have a moral bent to it. It’s a very practical argument that different mediums are capable of carrying different messages.

I read it as a counter to Postman’s citing Huxley that society is becoming enamored with the superficial (ie the ignoble) pursuits. I read the OP as effectively saying “who is to say what is noble vs trivial, considering it varies in societal context.”

170 years ago, people may have thought chess was superficial. I think now, maybe it would be considered a more noble pursuit.

Or, maybe the OP was saying it’s a constant devolving towards the increasingly trivial.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#175

Post by FrustratedMonky »

The book came out in 2005.

Was there any follow up, I didn't see one on the wiki.

It seems like we are accelerating to this.

Even the changes between 2005 and 2024. Near 20 years, we've leaned into the Huxley vision. Really leaned into it.

This is all getting really scary. I feel like we should do something. We should really band together and change course. I volunteer to go out and do something, except of course, I'm a bit distracted at the moment, so maybe can we put off the change for another week? I really need to see the end of this season of "Industry". Then we can do something, I'm sure I'll have some free time next week to get right on this.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#176

Post by throwaway2037 »

seabombs wrote: post #86
r721 wrote: post #23

Original comic source: https://www.recombinantrecords.net/docs/2009-05-Amusing-Ours... (archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20100111052839/http://www.recomb... ) HN discussion from 2010: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1554733 Wikipedia entry for the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death

Bit of an aside, it was fun to notice the Australian references in the comic. Surprises me still to see something Australian on the "regular" internet.

    > the Australian references
I read the comic. Which Aus refs?

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#177

Post by Toorkit »

Trasmatta wrote: post #158
jll29 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you, like me, would have had to watch people play Candy Crush on the Tube [= the London subway] on the way to work every morning for seven years, you would not ask. I felt terribly sorry for that loss of GDP and decline in mean global IQ.

Why would playing Candy Crush on the subway have any impact on GDP or IQ? Sounds like a non sequitur.

The plebians should be doing business during their commute, never stop hustling! /s

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#178

Post by FrustratedMonky »

portaouflop wrote: post #60
mikub wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is not really wrong. Chess can be fun, but I always thought it is pretty fascinating that the chess champions are viewed by the media as some kind of genius. I mean, it's just a game, not more but also not less.

Life is a game no more no less. If you can be a champion at anything you deserve recognition - just look at the people lauded for chugging dozens of hot dogs

"Life is a game no more no less."

Exactly.

So take a game AI from Deep Mind, link it to some AI that can build a world model, categorize images, put it in a robot, maybe an LLM so it can talk to you, give it some goals. See what happens.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#179

Post by FrustratedMonky »

tlb wrote: post #62

The sad thing is that none of it is very amusing. Current events twitter is more aggravating than amusing. We're aggravating ourselves to death.

"aggravating than amusing."

But it is distracting. Huxley didn't necessarily say everything was fun, just that it is distracting.

Rage, anger, outrage, keeps people engaged more than amusing.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#180

Post by yaky »

willguest wrote: post #83

Given that the vast majority of people go to work to earn money for businesses that exist either to exploit natural resources or appreciate in value in the eyes of an economic system that prioritizes increasing capital valuations above all else, including human dignity, long-term survival and the life of other species, I would say we're already there. Talking about a dystopian future is a convenient way to assuade ou…

> First of all, I know it's all people like you. And that's what's so scary. Individually you don't know what you're doing collectively. - The Circle by Dave Eggers

> In the course of her job, Resaint had met people like Megrimson, executives who went into work and sat down at their desks and made decisions that ravaged the world. They didn't seem evil to her. They seemed more like fungal colonies or AI subroutines, mechanical components of a self-perpetuating super-organism, with no real subjectivity of their own. That said, she would have happily watched any of them die. - Venomous Lumpsucker by Ned Beauman

I know it's still science/climate fiction, but very relevant to your point.

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