Live data from Hacker News

The semantic web is now widely adopted

csvbase.com

171–180 of 269 posts

Re: The semantic web is now widely adopted

#171

If even the semantic web people are declaring victory based on a post title and a picture for better integration with Facebook, then it's clear that Semantic Web as it was envisioned is fully 100% dead and buried. The concept of OWL and the other standards was to annotate the content of pages, that's where the real values lie. Each paragraph the author wrote should have had some metadata about its topic. At the very…

Yeah, this is hiking the original Semantic Web goal post over the horizon, across the ocean, up a mountain, and cutting it down to a little stump downhill in front of the kicker compared to the original claims. "It's going to change the world! Everything will be contained in RDF files that anyone can trivially embed and anyone can run queries against the Knowledge Graph to determine anything they want!"

"We've achieved victory! After over 25 years, if you want to know who wrote a blog post, you can get it from a few sites this way!"

I'd call it damning with faint success, except it really isn't even success. Relative to the promises of "Semantic Web" it's simply a failure. And it's not like Semantic Web was overpromised a bit, but there were good ideas there and the reality is perhaps more prosaic but also useful. No, it's just useless. It failed, and LLMs will be the complete death of it.

The "Semantic Web" is not the idea that the web contains "semantics" and someday we'll have access to them. That the web has information on it is not the solution statement, it's the problem statement. The semantic web is the idea that all this information on the web will be organized, by the owners of the information, voluntarily, and correctly, into a big cross-site Knowledge Graph that can be queried by anybody. To the point that visiting Wikipedia behind the scenes would not be a big chunk of formatted text, but a download of "facts" embedded in tuples in RDF and the screen you read as a human a rendered result of that, where Wikipedia doesn't just use self-hosted data but could grab "the Knowledge Graph" and directly embed other RDF information from the US government or companies or universities. Compare this dream to reality and you can see it doesn't even resemble reality.

Nobody was sitting around twenty years ago going "oh, wow, if we really work at this for 20 years some people might annotate their web blogs with their author and people might be able to write bespoke code to query it, sometimes, if we achieve this it will have all been worth it". The idea is precisely that such an act would be so mundane as to not be something you would think of calling out, just as I don't wax poetic about the tag in HTML being something that changes the world every day. That it would not be something "possible" but that it would be something your browser is automatically doing behind the scenes, along with the other vast amount of RDF-driven stuff it is constantly doing for you all the time. The very fact that someone thinks something so trivial is worth calling out is proof that the idea has utterly failed.

Re: The semantic web is now widely adopted

#172
Monetization is the elephant in the room in my opinion.

IMDB could easily be a service entirely dedicated to hosting movie metadata as RDF or JSON-LD. They need to fund it though, and the go to seems to be advertising and API access. Advertising means needing human readable UI, not metadata, and if they put data behind an API its a tough sell to use a standardized and potentially limiting format.

Re: The semantic web is now widely adopted

#174

The semantic web standards are sorely lacking (for decades now) a killer application. Not in a theoretical universe of decentralized philosopher-computer-scientists but in the dumbed down, swipe-the-next-30sec-video, adtech oligopolized digital landscape of walled gardens. Providing better search metadata is hardly that killer app. Not in 2024. The lack of adoption has, imho, two components. 1. bad luck: the Web got…

Search and ontologies weren't the only goals. Microformats enabled standardized data markup that lots of applications could consume and understand.

RSS and Atom were semantic web formats. They had a ton of applications built to publish and consume them, and people found the formats incredibly useful.

The idea was that if you ran into ingestible semantic content, your browser, a plugin, or another application could use that data in a specialized way. It worked because it was a standardized and portable data layer as opposed to a soup of meaningless HTML tags.

There were ideas for a distributed P2P social network built on the semantic web, standardized ways to write articles and blog posts, and much more.

If that had caught on, we might have saved ourselves a lot of trouble continually reinventing the wheel. And perhaps we would be in a world without walled gardens.

Re: The semantic web is now widely adopted

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I read a post like this I'm inclined to post Doctorow's Metacrap piece in response. You got there ahead of me. His reasoning is still valid and continues to make sense to me. Where do you think he's "comically wrong"?

The implicit metrics of quality and pedigree he believed were superior to human judgement have since been gamified into obsolescence by bots.

I think that the jury is still out on that one. Human judgement is too often colored by human incentives. I still think there's an opportunity for mechanical assessments of quality and pedigree to excel, and exceed what humans can do; at least, at scale. But, it'll always be an arms race and I'm not convinced that bots are in it except in the sense of lying through metadata, which brings us back to the assessment of quality and pedigree - right/wrong, good/bad, relevant/garbage.

Re: The semantic web is now widely adopted

#178
There is a lot of value on Enterprise Knowledge Graphs, applying the semantic web standards into the "self-contained" world of enterprise data, there are many large enterprises doing it, and there is an interesting video from UBS on how they consider it a competitive advantage

Re: The semantic web is now widely adopted

#179

As much as I like the ideas behind the semantic web, JSON-LD feels like the least friendly of all semantic markup options (compared to something like, say, microformats)

Microformats feel like they're ugly retrofitted kludges, where it would have been way more elegant if in among all the crazy helter-skelter competing development of HTML, someone thought to invent a tag, maybe a tag. That would have solved a few problems that certainly didn't.

I mean, is anything actually stopping one from adding something like those tags today? Web components use custom tags all the time

Re: The semantic web is now widely adopted

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I get that people here prefer For many of us it isn't that we think the status quo is the RightWay™ - we just aren't convinced that crypto as it currently is presents a better answer. It fixes some problems, but adds a number of its own that many of us don't think are currently worth the compromise for our needs. As you said yourself: > The crypto ecosystem is shady, I know, but the tech is great That but is no…

The main problem with blockchain is identical to the one with LLMs. When snake oil salesmen try to apply the same solution to every problem, you stop wasting your time with those salesmen. Both can be useful now and then, but the legit uses are lost in the noise. And for blockchain... it was launched with the promise of decentralized currency. But we've had decentralized currency before in the physical world. Until t…

> And for blockchain... it was launched with the promise of decentralized currency.

Cryptocurrencies were launched with that promise.

They are but one use¹ of block-chains / merkle-trees, which existed long before them².

----

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree#Uses

[2] 1982 for blockchains/trees as part of a distributed protocol as people generally mean when they use the words now³, hash chains/trees themselves go back at least as far as 1979 when Ralph Merkle patented the idea

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain#History

Post reply on HN