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China's manufacturers are going broke

economist.com

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Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#171

Post by defrost »

Terr_ wrote: post #170
theaussiestew wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US: Has a gazillion military bases around the world and encircling China. Commenter: "That's totally not evidence of being more militaristic, US just has more friends" You just contradicted yourself. Having more military bases IS being militaristic.

So you're telling me that North Korea is an extremely non militaristic nation of peace, simply because it has no foreign bases? Your metric is flawed.

> you're telling me that North Korea is an extremely non militaristic nation of peace, simply because it has no foreign bases?

No.

They're not saying that. You're making an illogical argument.

The mere fact you made three edits tells us that you know your "logic" just isn't.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#172

Post by defrost »

Terr_ wrote: post #169
defrost wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bases in the Phillipines as a result of invading on the back of falsely accusing the Spanish of sinking the Maine .. "allies". Bases in Japan as a result of levelling all the major cities and using two atomic weapons .. "allies". Call it what you like, the US has a habit of beachheading bases across the globe and never leaving.

No, you're attacking a different straw-man argument. These are not the same question: 1. Is America today more militaristic than the PRC ? 2. Has America been successfully militaristic in prior generations including ones which are now dead? Each requires different evidence, answering one does not answer the other.

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

America has been sabre rattling about the South China Sea for two decades now, a sea named after China that China has sailed through for some 4,000 years.

Is it any wonder that China builds out a navy to defend waters off its own shores that America has crossed an ocean to patrol?

I'm not particularly anti-US, just an observer of the world and history in general. Post WWII the US has been number one and it wants to keep that crown despite China advancing faster than any other nation for the past decades.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#173

Post by petre »

alephnerd wrote: post #35
jncfhnb wrote: post #18

> Hengchi, an electric-vehicle (ev) maker owned by Evergrande, a failed property developer, told investors that two of its subsidiaries had been forced into bankruptcy. The group originally aimed to sell 1m evs a year by 2025; amid feverish competition it sold just 1,389 last year. When you miss sales targets by 99.9% it’s got to be more than a competition problem

> When you miss sales targets by 99.9% it’s got to be more than a competition problem It's fairly common across the EV industry in China. BYD is an amazing product and makes good cars. The other manufacturers not so much, as is reflected in Chinese EV car sales [0]. That's why manufacturers like SAIC (MG Motors), GAG (Wuling Motors), etc have resorted to trying to export abroad because they cannot beat BYD domestical…

There are also Nios, Geely and Roewe on the streets of Shanghai.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41207048

BYD is building an EV plant in Turkye for $1bn.

https://electrek.co/2024/07/08/byd-building-huge-1-billion-e...

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#174

Post by illiac786 »

lenkite wrote: post #168
illiac786 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

speaking of “blinkers the size of titanosaurs” as you put it, I don’t understand how you possibly cannot know this very long list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_of_the_Pe... And again, I’m not saying the US are not imperialists, and they were the most imperialists for a very long while, but I really think China beat them. They still have less means to their imperialists ambitions, but their ambit…

Please do not conflate territorial disputes with "invasion". When has China started bombing their neighbors - or any other nation for that matter ? At-least their territorial disputes are with the the nations neighbouring them and not nations across the world.

Well, you can call it invasion or not, it’s definitely very imperialistic.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#175

Post by ein0p »

aquamar2 wrote: post #158
ein0p wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> repeatedly threatens to take Taiwan by force See, the problem with this is that he never did threaten that. It's CIA propaganda. Indeed such a threat would make zero sense even logically, since from the standpoint of China (and the US State Department) Taiwan _is_ China.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/China-s-party-congress/Xi-v... Xi Jinping opened the Chinese Communist Party's twice-a-decade National Congress on Sunday by pledging to never renounce using force to take control of Taiwan https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/10/chinas-xi-says-outs... Chinese President Xi Jinping has met former Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou and said that outside influence cannot stop the “family”…

I don’t see anything in any of this that contradicts my claim, although I can see how you were misled by the wording. “Never renouncing the use of force” is not the same thing as “threatening to use force”. Put bluntly, all China has to do to reunify with Taiwan peacefully is grow its economy and wait for another decade for the bottom to fall out here in the US. And yes, it is inevitable that they will reunify, and almost certain that it’ll happen without bloodshed unless the US makes them believe unrealistic things about an island right next to an industrial colossus 60x the size being able to somehow “beat China” militarily with or without our “help”. I pray to god Taiwan doesn’t believe this because it’ll be utterly and completely destroyed otherwise. Shit the US couldn’t even beat the Taliban or Houthis. What makes anyone believe that it can even pose a significant threat on the other side of the world?

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#176

Post by rurban »

https://archive.is/20240815105917/https://www.economist.com/...

Some overly subsidized EV companies are going broke, and their inflated housing market crashes. Evergrande. Of course. That's a good thing.

Still stronger growth than everywhere else. And their chip industry will soon be independent. This US war backfired massively.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#177

Post by TeaBrain »

ein0p wrote: post #175
aquamar2 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/China-s-party-congress/Xi-v... Xi Jinping opened the Chinese Communist Party's twice-a-decade National Congress on Sunday by pledging to never renounce using force to take control of Taiwan https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/10/chinas-xi-says-outs... Chinese President Xi Jinping has met former Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou and said that outside influence cannot stop the “family”…

I don’t see anything in any of this that contradicts my claim, although I can see how you were misled by the wording. “Never renouncing the use of force” is not the same thing as “threatening to use force”. Put bluntly, all China has to do to reunify with Taiwan peacefully is grow its economy and wait for another decade for the bottom to fall out here in the US. And yes, it is inevitable that they will reunify, and a…

The idea of reunification is less popular than it's ever been in Taiwan since Taiwan's Nation Chengchi University started polling in the late 1990s. What you don't seem to understand is that unification is most supported among the older generations in Taiwan. With time, Taiwan will only become less open to the idea of reunification as the older generations die off. Currently less than 10% support the idea, down from nearly 20% two decades ago. You've likely never met a Taiwanese if you believe the Taiwanese population is open to the idea.

The US has also never engaged with the Houthis, except to protect marine shipping. There was never an attempt to "defeat" them by the US.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#178

Post by TeaBrain »

ein0p wrote: post #157
aquamar2 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> repeatedly threatens to take Taiwan by force See, the problem with this is that he never did threaten that. It's CIA propaganda. Indeed such a threat would make zero sense even logically, since from the standpoint of China (and the US State Department) Taiwan _is_ China.

The US's official public position on the One China Policy is a diplomatic front for the benefit of US relations with the PRC. The US maintains diplomatic relations with Taiwan through the American Institute in Taiwan, an organization owned by the US government and staffed by members of the state department.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#179

Post by humanlity »

greyw wrote: post #88
uoaei wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government has put a lot of effort into isolating China from the Phillippines. It's just statecraft and covert influence campaigns, nothing to do with the moral supremacy of anti-imperialism. Moralizing arguments such as this one are FUD.

Or maybe its just that china demands all of south china sea for itself up to the phillipine coast. Ah no that must be the fault of the USA too! /s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_South_China_Se...

quote with wiki, not the entire history, genius

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#180

Post by humanlity »

It’s amusing to see discussions about exotic markets like this. While I don’t agree with the CCP’s policies, I believe the issue is more related to free-market dynamics. Given today’s inflation, potential buyers are saving every penny. In China, unlike in the West, people spend based on their expectations and income, and they never resort to deficit spending.

Considering the market situation and geopolitical factors, it is foreseeable that labor-intensive, low-value-added manufacturers are going bankrupt. Frankly, Europe and the US face similar situations.

Regarding Taiwan and the South China Sea, the distrust of the East among Chinese people is influenced by historical experiences with North Korea, Japan, and Vietnam. However, in today’s world, war is a significant and serious issue, and ordinary citizens do not want to face its bitter consequences. What confuses me is that Western media often portray China as a threat, while Chinese mainstream media exaggerate these reports, deepening mutual hatred.

P.S. I’m Chinese.

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