Live data from Hacker News

Copying is the way design works (2020)

matthewstrom.com

171–180 of 245 posts

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#171
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in general you can copy all of someone's designs even without touring. exceptions are when they're covered by copyright or patent

Which they are by default.

no. copyright has a rather limited scope that excludes the aspects of design you most want to copy; patents must be applied for and received; and both expire

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it makes sense, it really isn't the case if the market leaders have shitty design principles. Apple stopped bundling an iPhone charger on recent models. Samsung did the same, but realized the backlash was enormous, and offered the charger for free (instead of being an additional purchase) if you bought a recent model. Same with headphone jack, although it was received much more negatively and I'm pretty sure Sa…

I don't think you are quite talking about the same kind of design here. You are talking about very high level choices. (Do we bundle a charger with every new phone? does the phone have a jack?) Those are not really good examples where familiarity is important. The argument about the importance of familiarity is in the UX paradigm of the phone. Think about the task of pairing a phone with a wifi network. You usually d…

Another example of this: when I bought my current phone it took me well over a week to figure out how to put it on silent, because the option to do it is no longer on the control panel you sweep down from the top of the screen.

No, now I have to actually adjust the volume to make the volume indicator / slider pop up, and then the mute button is visible.

If the volume slider was accesible through the regular on-screen interface, I might have looked for a mute button alongside it. But pressing the volume up / down buttons didn't occur to me, because those buttons are for nudging the volume one step in either direction, not for making hidden UI elements appear.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. "Intuitive" mostly means "I have seen this elsewhere."

As a concrete example, the idea of a mouse was once counterintuitive to users because they'd never seen one before. Windows included Solitaire with the OS in part to introduce ideas like "click" or "click and drag" to users that were unfamiliar with GUIs, by linking them to physical concepts users did understand ("oh, I have a physical card, I can grab it and move it around, that makes sense!").

> was once...

...and is rapidly becoming so again, hence modern UIs treating it as a second-class citizen.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#174

> As a designer, I feel the need to be original. If you’re a designer, or even if you’re just interested in design, you probably feel the need to be original, too. I've been a professional designer since 2006, and I got over that thinking pretty quickly. A designer trying to be strikingly original is rarely acting in service of the design. If you want to be strikingly original, you probably want to be an artist inste…

Designers should feel the "need to be original", in the sense that every project is different, and can be looked at with fresh eyes.

Perhaps a project is 50% similar to existing project A, 45% similar to existing project B, and 5% novel. Finding this correct balance of copies of A and B, and finding a good solution to the novel part - this process feels "original" in many ways.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it real consideration that anyone could consider to be worth "all the IP that you happen to be able to see while on this tour", or is it real consideration that Xerox thought was worth "an opportunity to see how we run the best tech lab of our generation"? Don't forget that Apple presumably got paid $1M dollars out of the deal in addition to the tour. I'm having a hard time seeing the argument that the right to pa…

I don't care; as far as I'm concerned, that argument is isomorphic to "would $1MM literal dollars be enough for what they saw, or should the number be higher". Maybe. But the right to buy shares is not really a meaningful distinction to the simple issuance of shares in this historical context. That's all I'm arguing.

What? It absolutely is.

One has a face value of $1,000,000.00

The other has a face value of $0.00

If Apple offered me one of these right now it would completely change my life, and the other would be something I wouldn't even take them up on.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this couldn't be further from the truth. It might be true for DJs playing "main stage" style EDM (poppy mainstream music) but for most electronic subgenres – especially techno – the crowd absolutely expects the DJ to be a superb crate digger and pull out new and deep tracks they've never heard before. No one goes to a techno club to hear rinsed tracks; they want the DJ to show them music they've never heard befo…

Most DJs do not make their livings at techno clubs. The majority are hired to play bars and events that do not cater to particularly discerning audiences.

Exactly. The DJs that are innovative, crate digging, slightly pretentious music nerds are almost exclusively hobbyists, with a vanishingly tiny percentage of them being able to eek out a meagre living from it. The majority of full time DJs cater to mainstream audiences who absolutely do want to hear the same 50 - 100 tracks on rotation every time they go out. They want to dance and sing along to music that they're familiar with, and if the DJ doesn't play what they know then they won't dance, they won't stay, and the DJ won't remain employed.

It's actually very similar to web design - innovation has its place, but 99% of the time people want familiarity.

Source: spent a decade as a professional DJ

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#177
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I was a UI/UX guy for about 5 years and worked for a company that pumped out thousands of sites a year. A bunch of their designs won awards and I saw their model and thought I could do that, it seemed easy. The hitch was that I was going to design really cool sites, with all kinds of animations, huge text, have really cool navigation menus, etc. In short, I had a very romantic idea that I would dictate some inc…

It is not only that. For example wannabe EDM DJs think they have to be creative and find tracks that no one ever heard to be edgy or whatever… most of people pay for having cookie cutter songs played so they can dance and have a good experience and they don’t want to be surprised on EDM event - well there are big names that can do whatever they want of course but that is different expectation. The same with software…

I'm not sure how to phrase this in a way that complies with the spirit of HN (open to suggestions!) but that's a pretty American take on electronic music.

It's not necessiraly wrong, but it holds just as much for any other genre of music and the choice of "EDM" to make the point is pretty typical.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#178
post #40
post #39

You sorta want to use affordance, when Apple creates a new type of UI, it’s usually because the introduced new tech. Like recent Samsung copy cat AirPods, they cannot invent a new UI because they are not the innovators, so they need to borrow affordances from Apple. On why they copy the shape and size, that is the part where you can be more artistic, and it seems they have no taste. (Affordance meaning using what peo…

A lot of the UI features and associated tech that apple introduced in iPhone and iPad last few years lagged Android by a few iterations. What gives?

Yeah like the customizable home screen and widgets. They ain't perfect, but I think they really wanted it done right for Mobile. The widget itself isn't new in Apple's ecosystem as Macs always had it.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#180
Self taught artist, and I learned by copying my favorite comic books and painters.

Went to art school and a significant part of my art history class dealt in remembering the name of art "movements" which is a veiled way of saying a period when everyone was copying each other. Then of course you learn about the influential artists who heavily borrowed from xyz. Another funny one is "revival" which just means "straight up copy"

This is why I have limited sympathy for the uproar about AI art. It's just cutting through the boring part.

Post reply on HN