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6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

joanwestenberg.com

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Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#171

Post by poincaredisk »

majewsky wrote: post #144
poincaredisk wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can’t be a techno-optimist anymore. You can be, we're just getting old. LLMs are very exciting! WASI (and a bit older WebAssembly) is a bold idea! Rust is a breath of fresh air and ancient tools are finally being rewritten! Edge computing may change the way we write programs! Hardware is finally ready for VR! Now, I'm quite sceptical and pessimistic about all of the above. But I think this says more about me tha…

> LLMs are very exciting This just goes back to your grandparent comment: "I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes." Also, I'm not particularly excited about my day job becoming about fixing up half-broken scripts that other people pump out with LLMs. > WASM/WASI is a bold idea I will admit that I have not looke…

You seem to have missed my point slightly. 17 year old me would be very excited about LLMs - they have potential to be very disrupting, and are almost magical compared to what we had just a few years ago (remember when image recognition was a challenge?). Current day me is not. And I have also witnessed several hype cycles - enough to grow tired of pointless changes. Even though I was an early adopter of everything 20 years ago, always ready to try new technologies.

But did the world really change? Are dangerous technology and hype cycles new? Or maybe the world is the same but it is me who have changed? Will current day teenagers recollect 2020s as a golden age of tech?

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#172

Post by ryandrake »

Terr_ wrote: post #102
ryandrake wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to love computers and software. When the next great thing came out, I’d be an enthusiastic early adopter, and enjoyed the new powers the technology gave me. Now, whenever something new comes out, my first thought is: “how is this thing going to suck up my personal data and monetize me?” And my second thought is “how is this going to wreck some part of life and/or humanity and turn it into profits for the rich?…

In think it boils down to the difference between technology as capital that individuals could acquire and control for their own priorities, versus technology controlled by a large company to deliver--or deny--a limited service to individuals. While the past 30 years have absolutely put the "personal" into "personal computer", I'd rather have a personal assistant than a personal overseer .

I agree with this most out of all the replies. The PC of the 90s was a personally empowering device. You bought it from the manufacturer (or individual parts), took it home, turned it on, and it was yours, and only yours, to explore and use. You could make it do whatever you wanted, up to the limits of the hardware and your programming ability. You decided when to turn it on and off, what to run on it and when. These devices existed for the benefit of the users, and to make your life easier and better.

Modern technology lost this. Everything now comes with a hidden, or not so hidden, tether to various companies. Unlike the PC of the 90s, ModernDevices today are limited. And the limits are artificial and set by the device and OS manufacturers, not set by physics or your own personal skill with the device. Now you constantly have these manufacturers looking over what you're doing, to ensure it's OK with them, and to ensure it's still making them money. And as soon as what you want to do with your ModernDevice conflicts with what all these various companies want you to do with them, they get to ultimately decide, not you. The companies are more and more deciding when the device can be turned on and off, what can and cannot run on it and when. These devices exist for the benefit of their manufacturers.

Companies' paternalistic attitude of "What should we allow users to do?" is what soured new technology for me.

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#173

Post by from-nibly »

keiferski wrote: post #67
extr wrote: post #24

This person acts like they were disseminating propaganda for the reich. I get that doing corporate PR probably feels very cynical in general but coaching founders not to fumble the bag in an interview or writing blog posts about funding rounds are on the lesser evils side I think. Who is the victim of manipulation there? VCs? Lol

You don’t need to be not-doing evil things to feel dissatisfied with your work. There was a line in the post about not having written anything they actually believed in for a long time. That kind of thing weighs one’s soul down, even if it’s not “evil” in a grand sense.

Yes, but also at the same time I feel like we need to raise the bar for what isn't evil. Maybe not Bible levels of unwashed hands are evil. Maybe we could start calling the BS evil. That doesn't mean we have to call everyone involved evil, but the BS can still be evil.

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#174

Post by vinyl7 »

fragmede wrote: post #152
ryandrake wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to love computers and software. When the next great thing came out, I’d be an enthusiastic early adopter, and enjoyed the new powers the technology gave me. Now, whenever something new comes out, my first thought is: “how is this thing going to suck up my personal data and monetize me?” And my second thought is “how is this going to wreck some part of life and/or humanity and turn it into profits for the rich?…

> You can’t be a techno-optimist anymore. You can't? Just yesterday, Waymo opened their self-driving taxi service to the general public in San Francisco. We now have self driving cars. You draw a stick figure and the computer draws the rest of the fucking owl. I have an AI that I talk to on my phone and I tell it about my life's bullshit and it guides me through it. It helps me with my writing and my programming. Rob…

That just means that most humans are now obsolete and the government and corporations have no need to keep us around

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#175

Post by ryandrake »

poincaredisk wrote: post #171
majewsky wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs are very exciting This just goes back to your grandparent comment: "I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes." Also, I'm not particularly excited about my day job becoming about fixing up half-broken scripts that other people pump out with LLMs. > WASM/WASI is a bold idea I will admit that I have not looke…

You seem to have missed my point slightly. 17 year old me would be very excited about LLMs - they have potential to be very disrupting, and are almost magical compared to what we had just a few years ago (remember when image recognition was a challenge?). Current day me is not. And I have also witnessed several hype cycles - enough to grow tired of pointless changes. Even though I was an early adopter of everything 2…

I thought about that when I wrote the comment: Maybe it's me (or the world) that's changed, and not the technology. But that's not it. What has changed is the technology, and specifically who the technology is empowering/serving. 17 year old me was excited about PCs because they empowered/served the user. 47 year old me is not excited about LLMs and 17 year old me also would not be excited about LLMs. Because LLMs are obviously being developed for the purpose of empowering/serving the LLM companies, not necessarily the user. Any benefit the user happens to get out of LLMs is a side effect and not really the purpose of the software.

I am actually excited about LLMs that are entirely mine to tinker with, run 100% on my own silicon, open up and modify, publish my changes.

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#176

Post by mdhb »

roenxi wrote: post #169
mdhb wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a genuinely weird worldview to me. Like you’re missing a huge and meaningful chunk of one of the best parts of humanity.

I'm talking about work. There are people who enjoy their work, but they are rather rare. Work is a "huge and meaningful chunk" of our lives, but frankly it'd be a better world if it wasn't.

You sure seemed to be talking about your spare time a moment ago.

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#177

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #90
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #3

While this author is of a younger generation, this really resonated with me as a Gen Xer. I feel there is so much disillusionment among folks that came of age during the 90s because there was so much techno optimism then, and it didn't quite turn out like we envisioned. Two things made me think about this recently: 1. I saw a Reddit post that was titled something like "The 90s were peak humanity. Enough tech to make…

> The 90s were peak humanity Yeah, sure. At the same time a large European country was falling apart in a bloody and cruel war that saw many innocent people outright murdered or displaced.

I think some folks are missing the point.

I don't literally think it was "peak humanity", worldwide (to be clear I was just quoting from this post, https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/1dbsgnc/90s_...) Yes, there were still wars and genocides.

But, as it relates to the article here, the other part of the title, "Enough tech to make life easy, not enough to become life" is very relevant, and that's the negative change I feel like a lot of us who remember the 90s well can identify with.

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#178

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #147
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #3

While this author is of a younger generation, this really resonated with me as a Gen Xer. I feel there is so much disillusionment among folks that came of age during the 90s because there was so much techno optimism then, and it didn't quite turn out like we envisioned. Two things made me think about this recently: 1. I saw a Reddit post that was titled something like "The 90s were peak humanity. Enough tech to make…

> The 90s were peak humanity Nostalgia is one hell of a drug. I was a teenager during the 90's, and I do have fond memories of things from that decade, but it would do well to keep your nostalgia in check. Even when we restrict ourselves to the realm of tech, a lot of things back then sucked horribly. Large tech companies already showed their rent-seeking tendencies, there was crazy hype for shit ideas (the dotcom bu…

Yes, it's good to be cautious against nostalgia, but it's also bad to just pretend that everything just basically repeats.

To be clear, since I feel a bunch of comments are taking that "90s was peak humanity" quote overly literal (another commenter pointed out there were still horrible wars during the 90s), I'd point out that it was about the expectations of how tech would improve human lives.

Most specifically, there was a very broad belief that things like the Internet would bring people closer together. But by lots of objective metrics (measures of loneliness, polarization, pessimism for the future, youth mental illness, etc.), not only did tech not "bring us closer together", it actively helped rip us apart. And I think if you time traveled back to the 90s and explained those outcomes, the vast majority of people would be genuinely shocked and surprised.

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#179

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

renewiltord wrote: post #98
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #3

While this author is of a younger generation, this really resonated with me as a Gen Xer. I feel there is so much disillusionment among folks that came of age during the 90s because there was so much techno optimism then, and it didn't quite turn out like we envisioned. Two things made me think about this recently: 1. I saw a Reddit post that was titled something like "The 90s were peak humanity. Enough tech to make…

I walked through Salesforce Park. There were families everywhere. Some twenty kids were playing Marco Polo. I went online: everyone was miserable. Miserable people drive away others so they create a Dead Sea Effect where their world seems universally miserable. I’m enjoying the diffusion model art. My wife is a creative director and illustrator and it’s loads of fun for us to play with. Besides I have a washer/dryer…

> 80% of Americans are happy with their personal lives

I think it's fair to point out that this number (actually 78% who say they are "satisfied" or "very satisfied" with their lives) is "near a record low".

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2024/02/12/american-...

But I do agree, the "miserableness" online seems much greater than "the real world", but that's also kinda my point. So much tech is designed to addict you (i.e. doom scrolling), that I find I'm happiest when I get rid of tech from my life (leave my cell phone at home, go for long walks in nature, etc.) This wasn't the case for me in the 90s primarily because lots of tech was a nice diversion but not a constant negative distraction.

Re: 6 months ago, I left the bullshit industrial complex

#180

Post by t0bia_s »

I'm freelancing about ten years in audiovisual production and design. I'm avoid commercial sphere. I'm absolutely avoiding product advertising.

In those 10 years I realized how fake it is. Basically product advertising is proof that product is not good enough to be sold on market. Good product is advertising by itself. With this honesty, you cannot participate in fake indistry.

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