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FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

nytimes.com

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Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#171

Post by tivert »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #88
TomatoCo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To belabor the point and repeat a bit from Wikipedia, this was bar-none the absolute perfect flight crew possible. A flight crew with over 65000 hours experience and, riding as a passenger, a training pilot with a further 23000 who had specifically practiced this exact failure (total loss of hydraulics) after a lost craft four years prior. For further reading, https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/fields-of-fortune-the…

This blurb from the wiki stood out to me Despite the fatalities, the accident is considered a good example of successful crew resource management. A majority of those aboard survived; experienced test pilots in simulators were unable to reproduce a survivable landing. It has been termed "The Impossible Landing" as it is considered one of the most impressive landings ever performed in the history of aviation.

> crew resource management

That doesn't mean what I'd assumed it would by mean just looking at the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#172

Post by ckw »

pfdietz wrote: post #36

A famous crash caused by a hidden defect in titanium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232 The accident wasn't total only because of magnificent actions of the flight crew.

Errol Morris mini-documentary on the event: https://youtu.be/o8vdkTz0zqI?si=8_Be_zNPTOq9iZEF

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#174

Post by CPLX »

ajross wrote: post #145
CPLX wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason they found it is because it had suspicious physical properties.

Not per the linked article. In fact Spirit goes so far as to claim they've done extensive testing to prove the material's airworthiness, which is pretty much a straight refutation. Are you reading from somewhere else?

It was corrosion inconsistent with the expected properties of the material.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/boeing-air...

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#175

Post by Jtsummers »

willy_k wrote: post #173
bitcharmer wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise there's a very good reason for those sanctions, don't you.

[flagged]

> To put economic pressure on a country that we pressured into a war?

Who is "we"? Besides, Putin and the Russian government chose this war, they were not pressured into it.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#176

Post by abofh »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #87
TomatoCo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To belabor the point and repeat a bit from Wikipedia, this was bar-none the absolute perfect flight crew possible. A flight crew with over 65000 hours experience and, riding as a passenger, a training pilot with a further 23000 who had specifically practiced this exact failure (total loss of hydraulics) after a lost craft four years prior. For further reading, https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/fields-of-fortune-the…

Reminds me of the Gimli Glider, and the incredible coincidence of having an experienced glider pilot as the Captain of that flight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

You hear about the coincidences that work out, you're unlikely to hear about the pilot who was a professional glider who landed his regular flight at Dulles.

Thousands of planes in the air every day, that one with engine failure has a pilot who practices without engines isn't surprising. I'd be more surprised if he was a skilled mechanic who repaired the engine in situ.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#177

Post by reisse »

Jtsummers wrote: post #166
mhh__ wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been downvoted with no retort. Can anyone in the know comment if there's truth to the hypothesis?

I didn't downvote them, but didn't upvote either. "Chinesium" - the supplier it was traced to is Chinese, but the source is unknown beyond that because the documents are falsified. It's also not yet clear if there is a quality issue, the tested parts and materials are turning out ok so far but the lack of provenance makes it difficult to know with any confidence how long the material will last. It could be the right…

> For all we know, this is Russian in source

What is the source of this claim? I don't see it in NYT paper.

> but given false documents to get it sold on the open market bypassing some sanctions

It was sold in 2019, long before sanctions on titanium exports.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#178

Post by willy_k »

Jtsummers wrote: post #175
willy_k wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> To put economic pressure on a country that we pressured into a war? Who is "we"? Besides, Putin and the Russian government chose this war, they were not pressured into it.

[flagged]

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#179

Post by rpmisms »

tivert wrote: post #171
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blurb from the wiki stood out to me Despite the fatalities, the accident is considered a good example of successful crew resource management. A majority of those aboard survived; experienced test pilots in simulators were unable to reproduce a survivable landing. It has been termed "The Impossible Landing" as it is considered one of the most impressive landings ever performed in the history of aviation.

> crew resource management That doesn't mean what I'd assumed it would by mean just looking at the term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management

Airlines have figured out that people suck at multitasking.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#180

Post by Jtsummers »

reisse wrote: post #177
Jtsummers wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote them, but didn't upvote either. "Chinesium" - the supplier it was traced to is Chinese, but the source is unknown beyond that because the documents are falsified. It's also not yet clear if there is a quality issue, the tested parts and materials are turning out ok so far but the lack of provenance makes it difficult to know with any confidence how long the material will last. It could be the right…

> For all we know, this is Russian in source What is the source of this claim? I don't see it in NYT paper. > but given false documents to get it sold on the open market bypassing some sanctions It was sold in 2019, long before sanctions on titanium exports.

Good point on the timing. But I didn’t make a claim, I said “for all we know”. We don’t know the real source, but yes drop the sanction example since it does predate current sanctions.
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