Who pays for the costs of private cloud compute, is it free of charge for the iPhone owner (at least until they turn it into a subscription)?
What about second hand iPhone users?
Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
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Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#172I trust Apple
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Threads also is popular. Probably the mainstream Twitter alternative at this point?
Threads is far from mainstream and just filled with spam and OnlyFans spammers at this point.
weird, i get a bunch of music and programming stuff on my Threads feed. it's not very deep, but what's on the surface is quite nice and not a bunch of almost-porn. Twitters become half porn though
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Their post sure makes it seam like it’s possible. Was there something that stood out to you?
I mean, the software running on the client (phone/mac/ipad) is closed-source and, if we assume Apple is compromised, can be made to circumvent all of these fancy protections at the push of a button. If pressured by the government, Apple can simply change the client software to loosen the attestation requirements for private compute. And that would be the most inconspicuous choice.
Or target a device by IMEI or iCloud to be candidate to receive a software update, and push an update that sends data to "dev-llm-assistant.ai.apple.com".
"oh it's our dev version ? what's the problem ? we need data access for troubleshooting"
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
> One option is to release a malicious software update, sign it, publish the signature on the public chain, In this option it would be Apple releasing a malicious software update? > If they can still create new hardware, it seems likely whoever is making that hardware must still have access to the keys... This option reads like the keys are stored in apple-keys.txt > Both of these attacks are outside the "threat mode…
> In this option it would be Apple releasing a malicious software update? Yes, compelled by something like the all writs act (if the US is the one doing the compelling). > This option reads like the keys are stored in apple-keys.txt They probably are. That file might live on a CD drive in a safe that requires two people to open it, but ultimately it's a short chunk of binary data that exists somewhere (until it is de…
Allow me to introduce you to HSMs:
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Slightly off-topic, "open up the kimono" sounds disturbing and creepy to me as an Asian. I suspect I'm not alone in this.
Some share your sentiment. https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/11/02/360479744...
Is this phrase worth an entire long form blog post from NPR?
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#177Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...
"I wonder if Matt realises nobody can read his tweets without a X account?" https://nitter.poast.org/matthew_d_green/status/180029189724...
Thanks. I wonder how long that service is going to last.
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#178The thing with cloud and with anything related to it, anything that connects to the internet somehow... is that, unless it's open source and the servers decentralized, you are always trusting SOMEONE. Sure, Apple might make their best to ensure nobody – but them – have access to your data... but Apple controls all the end points. It controls the updates your iPhone receives, it controls the servers where this happens…
I don’t think that’s completely fair. It basically puts Apple in the same bucket as Google or OpenAI. Google obviously tracks everything you do for ads, recommendations, AI, you name it. They don’t even hide it, it’s a core part of their business model.
Apple, on the other hand, has made a pretty serious effort to ensure that no employee can access your data on these AI systems. That’s hugely different! They’re going as far as to severely restrict logging and observability and even building and designing their own chips and operating systems. And ensuring that clients will refuse to talk to non-audited systems.
Yes, we can’t take Apple’s word for it. But I think the third party audits are a huge part of how we trust, and also verify, that this system will be private. I don’t think it’s far to claim that “Apple knows what you’re doing.” That implies that some one, at some level at Apple can at some point access the data sent from your device to this private cloud. That does not seem to be true.
I think another facet of trust here is that a rather big part of Apple’s business model is privacy. They’ve been very successful financially by creating products that generate money in other ways, and it’s very much not necessary or even a sound business idea for them to do something else.
While I think it’s fair to be skeptical about the claims without 3rd party verification, I don’t think it’s fair to say that Apple’s approach isn’t better for your data and privacy than openAI or Google. (Which I think is the broad implication — openAI tracks prompts for its own model training, not to resell, so it’s also “only openAI knows what your doing.”)
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#179Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...
> (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) He actually has an active Mastodon account, but this particular story is not on there (yet): https://ioc.exchange/@matthew_d_green
Inactive since 2 months
Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
LLMs work on clear text inputs
But the setup is that Apple doesn't know which cleartexts currently being processed are associated with which user meaning that even live surveillance can't work without surveilling everybody, making any such program very quickly discoverable. Read the section about non-targetability in the link. Apple deserves credit for correctly analyzing their threat model and designing their system accordingly.
I’m willing to concede that Apple’s system is the best designed of the bunch. I’m not willing to call it “private”, however, if it processes unencrypted inputs in the jurisdiction of a nation state with pervasive government surveillance.