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Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

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Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#171

Post by fnordpiglet »

fastball wrote: post #133
akozak wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the "coup" framing a lot I just don't see how that's justified. They're the board of directors! Hiring and firing the CEO is core to the job (as is maintaining mission alignment, in the nonprofit world).

I think the "coup" framing is supported at least by Helen Toner's claims in this article. > "We were very careful, very deliberate about who we told, which was essentially almost no one in advance, other than obviously our legal team and so that's kind of what took us to to November 17." If that doesn't sound like a secret coup, I don't know what does. Like, yes, it is their job to hire and fire the CEO so it's not r…

When a board is about to fire a CEO do you think they typically discuss it publicly first? It’s usually treated as highly sensitive information at every company. Likewise if any company is about to fire anyone they also don’t typically advertise this to anyone other than HR, legal, and maybe the manager. For the CEO the manager -is- the board.

I’d be curious if you believe differently how you feel boards usually advertise such an action?

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#172

Post by cdchn »

Aunche wrote: post #152
rst wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Filed a formal complaint" with whom? The board itself is the final authority, empowered to investigate and act. If its members have concerns, they either do something or don't. There's nowhere else to pass the buck.

> "Filed a formal complaint" with whom? For their own records. They can use it for justification for disciplinary action or legal ammunition. It is always useful to document things in writing. It's the same reason why companies will put you on PIP.

Lie to your boss and see if they put you on a pip "Please improve your inability to tell the truth."

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#173

Post by NikolaNovak »

zooq_ai wrote: post #114
bmitc wrote: post #86

What is still bizarre is how the board brought him back. I just don't understand that from any angle. It is very clear that he lied and schemed. So why was there any issue? He had no power once fired. If another company wants to hire him, fine. If he wants to make platitudes on Twitter, who cares? Employees threatened to leave? Let them. I imagine many of them wouldn't, and if they did, you could just rehire and find…

Sam Altman made openAI possible. A true CEO like Satya knows without Sam, the rate of progress at OpenAI will be determined by decels like Helen/Jan aka ZERO. It's a disaster for product development, especially when you have openly invited Google to dance. I know HN leans engineering/safety/reliability/labor/pedantic (like chasing the absolute truth), but at the end of the day, company scales from the likes of Jobs/M…

Had to look up the jargon :

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tech/what-is-a-decel-dueling...

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#174

Post by slg »

z7 wrote: post #155
slg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument flows in both directions. Why defend the guy if you don't know "how everything went down"?

There is no logical equivalence between being skeptical and jumping to a conclusion based on possibly biased statements from involved parties.

Defending him is just as much "jumping to a conclusion" as criticizing him. If anything, it is a more active decision because he hasn't even offered a defense yet to this latest round of accusations meaning a defender must create a defense for him. Meanwhile, a criticism of him requires nothing new since it can just be a summary of the existing allegations against him.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#175

Post by mark212 »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #117
akozak wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the "coup" framing a lot I just don't see how that's justified. They're the board of directors! Hiring and firing the CEO is core to the job (as is maintaining mission alignment, in the nonprofit world).

Vince Mcmahon literally owns WWE but the board fired him. Of course he voted in a new board at the next election but I dont think it's unheard of boards to vote against their founders. Sam is a founder of openAI even if he never controlled the board, and they tried to take control from him.

Bad analogy. Sam has no stock in OpenAI or any sort of formal controlling interest. His power is solely informal: his own talents and abilities and the loyalty of the other employees. Regardless of the truth of the matters, the episode is a perfect example of the limits of formal authority and how informal or "soft" power can be even more effective in shaping events

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#176

Post by jollofricepeas »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #124
m3kw9 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also ironic people jumping to attack Altman from every negative article about him without knowing all the details and the contexts

All of it is only as ironic as Alanis Morissette

[flagged]

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#177

Post by Atotalnoob »

AlbertCory wrote: post #51
hipadev23 wrote: post #34

I’m gonna side with sama here. Toner and others who voted to fire are type of people who spend their entire career in meetings and political maneuvering and not a single day actually delivering results.

[flagged]

This is kind of gross.

You post your blog (subtle advertising) then vehemently attack anyone who dares to disagree?

Not cool.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#179

Post by Teever »

Hizonner wrote: post #156
Teever wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did that stuff with his sister ever get resolved?

"Resolved" in that it seems to get no attention, and hasn't since shortly after it originally blew up. As far as I know, she never retracted her claim of "sexual, physical, emotional, verbal, and financial abuse". And he never admitted to any of the above.

Yeah it's pretty wild that more people don't talk about that given how much time people spend gossiping about him like he was a tabloid celebrity.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#180

Post by mewpmewp2 »

drewbug01 wrote: post #169
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you realize that the board is wrong?

> What if you realize that the board is wrong? It is wise to be exceedingly cautious when deploying ends-justifies-the-means logic. Most of the time, history doesn’t remember those who employ it too fondly.

What are the exact statistics on this?
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