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Scandal at America's top science fair

karlstack.com

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Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#171

Post by levi-turner »

uneekname wrote: post #10

I was a finalist at the 2017 ISEF and it was quite an experience. A lot of super smart kids there and we all had fun living it up in Los Angeles. There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. No hate to high schoolers getting valuable STEM experience at local universities, but Regeneron should do more to diffe…

> There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations.

Love to see someone confirming my cynicism. In high school, a science teacher asked me if I were interested in doing something for the (then) Intel Talend Search. I looked up the previous finalists / winners and noticed that an overwhelming majority of the kids were in cities with top tier research universities (or did math stuff, those kids' locations varied a bit more). At that point, my spider sense told me that it wasn't worth the effort to try to compete without the backing / mentoring of a credentialed adult.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#172

Post by BeFlatXIII »

zachlatta wrote: post #23

It's frustrating that we encourage fraudulent behavior for the college application process. I blame the judges, and college admissions departments. It orients the entire USA public education system around training sociopathic behavior into teenagers. We tell young people the best way to get ahead in life is through exaggerating. Then we train them to do it in their college essays and extracurriculars. Gross.

That's why admissions should be tests-only. No interviews, no personality scores, no intentional shaping of the leadership class.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#173

Post by strikelaserclaw »

poulpy123 wrote: post #149

I'm baffled by the idea of making science competition with so much prize money for teenagers. For me it's antithetic with the goal of scientific research and can only fail in the long term. As a side note, the real responsible here is not the tennagers, but the organizers that didn't manage to catch a fraud so obvious

most of these teenagers already come from upper middle class (professional parents) backgrounds, they don't need the money, they know that winning it is a guaranteed admission to MIT or Harvard. Getting admitted to top schools today is an order of magnitude tougher than it was even 10 years ago.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#174

Post by JKCalhoun »

relwin wrote: post #47

My kids attended the same high school district that this student's school, Canyon Crest Academy (CCA), is part of. My youngest has friends that attended CCA and I asked him once why he didn't want to attend (it's an open school district) -- his reply is "all they do is study for AP tests." So I'm thinking there might be other pressures (i.e. parental) to perform, and this student may have responded in a desperate fas…

Raising my kids in the Bay Area, I certainly am aware of what I call unhealthy competitiveness in even the public schools.

If you think this is an unfortunate way to raise a child — in that kind of overly competitive environment – then there is a lot of blame to go around. The difficulty of getting into a UC school being an obvious place to start.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#175

Post by JKCalhoun »

_lvbh wrote: post #45
saagarjha wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t need the money. They want to win so they can get into college.

Is college that important when you’re already rich af? There are other channels to get in without risking reputational ruin.

> without risking reputational ruin

Feels a bit like, "Hope this impresses the judges ... but not too much."

Like I imagine the way card counters in Vegas must feel. I want to win, but not so much I attract the attention of the pit bosses.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#177

Post by [deleted] »

tomcam wrote: post #54
uneekname wrote: post #10

I was a finalist at the 2017 ISEF and it was quite an experience. A lot of super smart kids there and we all had fun living it up in Los Angeles. There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. No hate to high schoolers getting valuable STEM experience at local universities, but Regeneron should do more to diffe…

> There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. Said with kindness and discretion. Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities. It has been for decades. I know firsthand that many Chinese-born parents don't even view it as at all wrong…

[deleted]

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#178

Post by JKCalhoun »

notjoemama wrote: post #33

In reading this, I am reminded of a YouTube video by CGP Grey about how anger is more viral than any other emotional reaction online, including love. But then I think, isn't this one of those times where at least some level of annoyance is justified? Except, there's nothing I can do about it. Does making more people aware, that can't do anything about it, improve the situation? Or is awareness pointless because of ho…

Not anger, justice.

Most of us crave justice porn, and only when I am feeling in my most generous, zen-like mood can I find fault in that.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#179

Post by xnorswap »

poulpy123 wrote: post #149

I'm baffled by the idea of making science competition with so much prize money for teenagers. For me it's antithetic with the goal of scientific research and can only fail in the long term. As a side note, the real responsible here is not the tennagers, but the organizers that didn't manage to catch a fraud so obvious

The amount of prize money shocked me too, I put it down to a culture I don't understand.

See also $50,000 prize money for what's called a "Spelling Bee": Asking children to spell words correctly.

I feel so far removed from understanding that culture that I feel like I can't criticize it.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#180

Post by JKCalhoun »

thriftwy wrote: post #72
pstrateman wrote: post #16

That's not only scientific fraud, it's real felony fraud. Maybe community service equivalent to 50,000.00 at federal minimum wage would sort him out.

The child is nothing to be blamed for, it is a 100% problem of the organizers. For a 17 years old, even throwing together such work is already an worthwhile result. Teens is a golden age of compilation and remixing.

> Teens is a golden age of compilation and remixing.

Yeah, in the arts maybe, but not in the sciences.

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