Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

restoreprivacy.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 283 posts

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#171

Post by BodyCulture »

refurb wrote: post #164
fbdab103 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While an IP address is not an identity, it can still zero in on a location. I suspect governments and ISPs all keep historical logs of who was assigned what address.

It can be used to identify a location, but not an individual. I assume it could be easily challenged in court (network was compromised, “i give out my WiFi to anyone who visits my home”) without other supporting evidence.

It would be great to have the discussion open for people with actual knowledge and experience of the issues.

To keep the discussion interesting, please do not assume or guess, thanks!

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#172

Post by BodyCulture »

haakon wrote: post #111
AnonC wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a previous case some years ago, a French activist’s IP address was provided by Proton on court order. Proton does store IP address and does provide it when legally demanded to.

They were legally compelled to add IP logging for that specific user. After this incidence, they went on to obtain a court ruling in Switzerland, where they operate, so that this specific attack cannot happen again. In their blog post about it [1], they instruct concerned users to access their account over Tor. Of course when Proton say they don't log, we just have to take their word for it. People who don't want tha…

Is it possible now to sign up using TOR? It didn’t work a few years ago when I tried and never visited this website ever again.

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#173

Post by lkdfjlkdfjlg »

makeitdouble wrote: post #11

Proton Mail is in the title because it's where they went first, but the actual identification (real name, phone number etc.) seems to come from Apple on request for info related to the address. In this case the email address was the lead, but I wonder what other info would be enough to get the phone provider to spill the beans. For instance would an IP address used at a specific time be uniquely identifying if it was…

> Proton Mail is in the title because it's where they went first, but the actual identification (real name, phone number etc.) seems to come from Apple on request for info related to the address.

Irrelevant to the point. Proton Mail provided authorities with user data.

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#174

Post by _heimdall »

agile-gift0262 wrote: post #85
_heimdall wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is the GP's point. Privacy means the data is reasonably hidden, though it still exists somewhere in a readable state. Anonymity means the information of who did what really doesn't exist anywhere. In the case of governments, private data is only hidden until the government decides that it needs to look for it (or ask for it). Anonymity means the data isn't there, regardless of whether the government deci…

I slightly disagree with your distinction. Privacy is about minimising the amount of data collected that's visible to anyone but you. Your data stays with you and/or only you can see your data, therefore, private. Anonymity isn't about the amount of data collected, but that the data collected or accessible by others can't be linked to you.

I could have been more clear there. I was specifically thinking about data that can identify you, not just data in general.

If I'm the only one in possession with data I don't really consider it data collection at all, at least in the context of privacy and anonymity. Other than that I agree with your clarifications here though.

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#175

Post by [deleted] »

quitit wrote: post #159

It seems there is some mental conflict going in readers between the reality of what ProtonMail does for its customers and their expectations of what kinds of protections a legitimate business can provide. Both ProtonMail and Apple will challenge subpoenas when they believe they are not valid, however neither company has the final say in the matter and can be compelled to provide access to data that they reasonably ha…

[deleted]

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#176

Post by emptysongglass »

sevagh wrote: post #165
emptysongglass wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you have a bug that has been unfixed for 5 years now. I know because I submitted it. Still no action. Here's my last message to Proton Mail support, request ID 822331. I was directly told no resources would be spent on fixing it: > Well, it has been multiple years now so can you guys maybe prioritize this? How long do you want me to continue waiting on this issue? I can't count on PM users to send my mailse…

So is the feature missing or is your support ticket open?

It's been open for 5 years.

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#178

Post by Adrox »

refurb wrote: post #164
fbdab103 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While an IP address is not an identity, it can still zero in on a location. I suspect governments and ISPs all keep historical logs of who was assigned what address.

It can be used to identify a location, but not an individual. I assume it could be easily challenged in court (network was compromised, “i give out my WiFi to anyone who visits my home”) without other supporting evidence.

Not in Germany, where you are responsible for the Wifi access, see hundreds of copyrights fines each year...

Anyway, it puts the persons living in that location on the radar of the police, and other evidence can be collected (For example by getting a warrant and taking all electronics out of the "location").

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#179

Post by deadbabe »

oooyay wrote: post #31

I dislike that a website with privacy in the name collides privacy and anonymity. Privacy does not protect you from the state. Privacy is good enough to protect you from the public . If you are doing battle with or an enemy of the state, much less an agent of the state acting in bad faith simple privacy will do nothing for you. Worse your misunderstanding of it is actually a vector, like in this case. The measures fo…

If you are a true enemy of the state, why communicate by digital means at all? You could pass written notes or swap USB sticks around.

Re: Proton Mail discloses user data leading to arrest in Spain

#180

Post by mogiddy55 »

oooyay wrote: post #31

I dislike that a website with privacy in the name collides privacy and anonymity. Privacy does not protect you from the state. Privacy is good enough to protect you from the public . If you are doing battle with or an enemy of the state, much less an agent of the state acting in bad faith simple privacy will do nothing for you. Worse your misunderstanding of it is actually a vector, like in this case. The measures fo…

Buying used phones and laptops with cash at a bazaar whilst wearing a wig, one at a time.

You got a few days of Tor on each device; then they need to burn.

I really don't know what more you can do beyond making your own chat client. Internet is not a place for revolution.

Post reply on HN