H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread • Hacker News Board

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#171

Post by sandworm101 » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:50 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #137

sandworm101 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Of course factory farming is an aggravating factor for the spread of diseases. Of some diseases. It also prevents other diseases. Isolating animal species, specifically separating their waste, prevents cross-contamination. Google the stories of people getting parasites from lettuce grown on a "small organic farm" downhill from the pig sty. Want to eat raw lettuce and undercooked steak without getting sick? Those p…

> Want to eat raw lettuce and undercooked steak without getting sick? Those privileges come from factory farming techniques. Outbreaks of E. coli, listeria, giardia, etc. are common in factory farmed bagged lettuce. Dole certainly isn't some small artisan operation; https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/packaged-salad-mix-12... https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/16/ecoli-str... "'There are more and more…

>> Outbreaks of E. coli, listeria, giardia, etc. are common in factory farmed bagged lettuce.

Common, in that millions of people eat the food and a vanishingly small number get sick during the rare outbreaks. Compare pre-industrial farming, where nearly everyone got sick on a somewhat regular basis. Read British history. Everything was boiled for a reason. Today we can get away with lightly washing our food. Most everyone opens a salad and eats without question. That is new. That is because of modern farming practices.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#172

Post by pc86 » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:51 PM UTC

subquantum2 wrote: post #102

ImaCake wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H5N1 tests are PCR (with an extra “reversed” step for RNA) and are, in fact, pretty reliable. The same was true for COVID. The bad covid tests were the early antibody tests which had a ridiculously high false positive rate that made them useless. But the manufacturers lied about the quality or just relied on the lack of statistical literacy to sell their product.

It showed positive because The number of cycles in the PCR test was so high that it won't make any sense anymore. It was already positive from a slight contamination.

Please explain the difference between "positive" and "contaminated."

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#173

Post by sgregnt » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:52 PM UTC

3l3ktr4 wrote: post #81

It's crazy to see people denying that (meat) factory farming is a problem. You'd expect most of the public of this website to be rationalists in one way or another. Of course factory farming is an aggravating factor for the spread of diseases. Of course we can thrive with less meat consumption or none. How is that even a question?

Can you expand who is we in you claim? The commissariat of food?

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#174

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:53 PM UTC

3l3ktr4 wrote: post #81

It's crazy to see people denying that (meat) factory farming is a problem. You'd expect most of the public of this website to be rationalists in one way or another. Of course factory farming is an aggravating factor for the spread of diseases. Of course we can thrive with less meat consumption or none. How is that even a question?

[deleted]

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#175

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:53 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #171

ceejayoz wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Want to eat raw lettuce and undercooked steak without getting sick? Those privileges come from factory farming techniques. Outbreaks of E. coli, listeria, giardia, etc. are common in factory farmed bagged lettuce. Dole certainly isn't some small artisan operation; https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/packaged-salad-mix-12... https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/16/ecoli-str... "'There are more and more…

>> Outbreaks of E. coli, listeria, giardia, etc. are common in factory farmed bagged lettuce. Common, in that millions of people eat the food and a vanishingly small number get sick during the rare outbreaks. Compare pre-industrial farming, where nearly everyone got sick on a somewhat regular basis. Read British history. Everything was boiled for a reason. Today we can get away with lightly washing our food. Most eve…

> That is because of modern farming practices.

It's because of a multi-factorial societal shift involving vaccines, sanitation, germ theory, hand washing, water treatment, safety regulations, inspections, refridgeration, etc.

Pretending it's all because of factory farming is just silly.

The key to being able to eat rare meat is not to smear cow shit all over it and store it at 65 degrees for a day in an alley market. The key to being able to eat a salad is washing and cold storage of a product that inevitably gets exposed to pathogens in farm fields unless you raise it hydroponically in a hermetically sealed warehouse.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#176

Post by globnomulous » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:55 PM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #99

al_borland wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my mom was growing up she had organ meats pretty regularly, as it was cheaper and they didn’t have a lot of money. Over in Scotland their national dish is haggis, which is a bunch of organ meats minced up, and then they add in some oats to bulk it up and make it go further. There are solutions to use more of the animal and stretch it. I almost never hear about people eating organ meats in the US anymore. People…

One of the most consistent technological innovations throughout humanity's existence has been in improving how we eat, because eating is by far one of the biggest pleasures a person can have in life. The invention of fire revolutionized eating, the invention of agriculture revolutionized access to food at a fundamental level, the invention of refrigeration and freezing vastly expanded the reach and safety of food fro…

> the invention of agriculture revolutionized access to food at a fundamental level

And human health didn't recover for thousands of years

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#177

Post by triceratops » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:57 PM UTC

berndi wrote: post #168

triceratops wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickens eat worms. Feeding them crab or fish meal is fine. Cows are herbivores. Feeding them meat is abhorrent.

Do the cows know they are herbivores? Why would the fact that they don’t predate on other animals in the wild make it “abhorrent” to feed them animal products in captivity?

> Do the cows know they are herbivores?

How can we really know what cows know? What we know is they follow a herbivorous diet when possible. Their teeth and digestive system are optimized for consuming plants.

> Why would the fact that they don’t predate on other animals in the wild make it “abhorrent” to feed them animal products in captivity?

The reason you said.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#178

Post by someplaceguy » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:58 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #156

someplaceguy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> half of the planet is overweight/obese, I think we could slow down a bit tbh I don't think half of the planet is overweight or obese due to meat consumption. If anything, take away the meat (or make it more expensive) and it'd probably lead to even more obesity.

Middle Ages peasants ate meat rarely. They were not obese.

They also didn't eat a lot of fries, sugared beverages, ultra-processed food, etc... which is easily available nowadays and likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption).

That's not to say that there aren't alternatives to meat that also satiate and are nutritious, but most people don't consider them to be equally delicious and therefore they are not as likely to be consumed if meat isn't available.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#179

Post by cycomanic » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 2:00 PM UTC

eunos wrote: post #31

skhunted wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non factory farming. Prices will go up and this would be a good thing in addition to treating the animals in a more moral way.

Well that make poor folks harder to fulfill nutrition requirements. Especially for kids that'd be devastating.

General rule, when someone brings up that fact that some regulation makes things harder for "poor folks" it is almost never about poor people, but just figleafs for arguing against regulations.

In reality it is the poor who are most affected by climate change, diseases, lack of food safety... If the people really cared about poor folks they would be arguing for more regulations, higher taxes, against credit card programs and lots of other things which effectively end up transferring wealth from the poor to the rich.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#180

Post by triceratops » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 2:04 PM UTC

someplaceguy wrote: post #178

triceratops wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Middle Ages peasants ate meat rarely. They were not obese.

They also didn't eat a lot of fries, sugared beverages, ultra-processed food, etc... which is easily available nowadays and likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). That's not to say that there aren't alternatives to meat that also satiate and are nutritious, but most people don't consider them to be equally delicious and therefore they are not as likely to be consumed if m…

That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat.

> fries, sugared beverages...which is likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption).

You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake.