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Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

breakingdefense.com

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Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#171

Post by threeseed »

ethbr1 wrote: post #164
Animats wrote: post #68

It's impressive how much hardware they've been able to develop. Their "Fury", which they acquired from Blue Force, is "a single engine business jet with no cabin." It was originally intended as a target drone, something for fighter pilots to practice against. Anduril repurposed it as an autonomous weapons system. They do mean autonomous. Their slogan is "Autonomy for Every Mission". We're seeing the future of warfare…

> future of warfare Color me skeptical. It feels like what we're seeing now is a local optimum: new systems (drones) designed to asymmetrically win ($) against legacy systems (mechanized vehicles) designed for very different goals. We'll see what things look like once the post-drone evolution cycle has turned on the armored side. That said, I do think the Marines are right, in that distributed agility/logistics from…

Ukraine is constantly inventing new techniques that are re-thinking what drones can do.

Recently they have been using them to drop spikes to slow vehicles which are then hit by a second set of drones.

At some point soon these drones will have specialised capabilities and will go out in swarms to autonomously figure out how to take down objects.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#173

Post by ethbr1 »

willcipriano wrote: post #118
torginus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in the US defense industry is, that since the end of the cold war, defense companies have consolidated into just 5 huge conglomerates and the lack of competition wasn't great for the pace of innovation, affordability or timely development. And the Cold War ended more than three decades ago, about the time we went from piston aircraft to the teen series jets making up the bulk of US inventory even today. I…

You know how you hear a lot of complaints about private prisons? How it creates perverse incentives that result in more people being imprisoned? We have a private war apparatus. We have been at war for 30 years without even a clear objective.

The objective is the same for every superpower in the world: to try and establish military hegemony and retain it for as long as possible.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#174

Post by [deleted] »

dash2 wrote: post #91
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation has not been in defense engineering lately because the US has lost A LOT of public trust when it comes to the defense industry in the wake of Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The US is not the country, nor do they have the reputation in front of the public that led to the Manhattan project, where the greatest minds would willingly work on defense projects, not just willingly but eagerly. The breakthroughs a…

I think you’re probably right, and to those who share that anti-US government sentiment here, I’d like to say: “wake up”! If you think the US is bad, wait till you try Russia or China. I have three refugees in my house. They may never now return home.

[deleted]

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#175

Post by solatic »

ethbr1 wrote: post #164
Animats wrote: post #68

It's impressive how much hardware they've been able to develop. Their "Fury", which they acquired from Blue Force, is "a single engine business jet with no cabin." It was originally intended as a target drone, something for fighter pilots to practice against. Anduril repurposed it as an autonomous weapons system. They do mean autonomous. Their slogan is "Autonomy for Every Mission". We're seeing the future of warfare…

> future of warfare Color me skeptical. It feels like what we're seeing now is a local optimum: new systems (drones) designed to asymmetrically win ($) against legacy systems (mechanized vehicles) designed for very different goals. We'll see what things look like once the post-drone evolution cycle has turned on the armored side. That said, I do think the Marines are right, in that distributed agility/logistics from…

> We'll see what things look like once the post-drone evolution cycle has turned on the armored side

I'm not convinced this is feasible in the short term; drone warfare is predicated on launching not just cheap drones but many of them. The new armor isn't steel or iron to survive the blast, but to shoot down attacking drones before they can explode. Most current defenses are ground-based missile batteries that can't really be directly protected by armor. Long-term, the most promising options are laser-based batteries, which today have insufficient power sources to stuff into mobile armored platforms.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#176

Post by mopsi »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #110
matthewmacleod wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as you might be aware, sometimes they aren’t.

Are you asking what the nuance is in this case? Ukraine is a strategically important region to Russia. They don't have to invade as long as they can threaten to invade, and thereby get concessions without armed conflict. If Ukraine joins NATO then Russia could no longer credibly threaten to invade because it would put Russia at war with NATO. Ukraine about to join NATO is thereby destabilizing, because then Russia ha…

> US diplomats knew this perfectly well and pushed for Ukraine to join NATO anyway.

The initiative for joining NATO came from Ukraine and not the US diplomats. Prior to 2014 the public support was too weak for it to happen. Popular support first shifted almost overnight from the majority opposing NATO membership to supporting it after Russia invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014, and shifted even more towards support after Russia launched the full-scale invasion in 2022: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations...

Neither invasion had anything to do with NATO. In 2014, Russia correctly judged that the international response would be too weak and made a successful land grab. After the spectacular American retreat from Afghanistan that mirrored the last days of Saigon, Russians again sensed weakness and thought Biden was too weak to intervene in Ukraine and decided that the climate was suitable for taking the next step in restoring their former empire in 2022. Planning for the 2022 invasion began around the time of US retreat from Afghanistan.

> It's like telling your friend to corner a vicious dog. The dog is not innocent, the dog is going to bite them and you knew that and told them to do it anyway.

This is a narrative propagated by Russians, and sounds convicing on the surface, but has little actual substance. Nobody's cornered. Russia's threats are bluffs, intended to paralyze you with fear and guide you into inaction, which Russia will then exploit, as they have done in Ukraine.

To continue your dog analogy, they are a dog that barks and barks, and bites only if they sense fear and weakness and see an opportunity to bite. Show strength and they'll back down. (And this is how you deal with actual dogs too; they smell fear from sweat.)

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#177

Post by [deleted] »

1oooqooq wrote: post #98
nbzso wrote: post #92

The problem you have, dear Americans is called MIC. Just quoting one of your presidents: >“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” So many wars for profit. History knows best that there is no free lunch. But I suppose…

> zala aero I'm not following the war but thanks to your comment just read about them. They are a subunit of Kalashnikov and the latest drone uses PET bottles for fuel tank and a plywood fuselage and a banal model airplane engine found at hobby shops. It's almost like some 90s game designer is writing the plot for this.

[deleted]

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#178

Post by nbzso »

1oooqooq wrote: post #98
nbzso wrote: post #92

The problem you have, dear Americans is called MIC. Just quoting one of your presidents: >“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” So many wars for profit. History knows best that there is no free lunch. But I suppose…

> zala aero I'm not following the war but thanks to your comment just read about them. They are a subunit of Kalashnikov and the latest drone uses PET bottles for fuel tank and a plywood fuselage and a banal model airplane engine found at hobby shops. It's almost like some 90s game designer is writing the plot for this.

Yep, you can check a thousand videos of those bottles with AI burning tanks, BMP’s, m777, etc. Or you can continue living in the Hollywood Metaverse.

My country is part of NATO. Nobody asked us. No referendum. No voting. Nothing. The political class is filling their pockets with money, while propaganda is beyond the level of USSR and Nazi Germany.

Some of us have military service behind our backs. Some of us lived under a communist dictatorship, and we know the smell of leftist bullshit.

Live in your tech bubble, but know that East Europeans see clearly who is the reason for this bloodbath. And when the time comes, we will not die for your corporations as Ukrainians.:)

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#179

Post by hn_20591249 »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #117
ninetyninenine wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing. Trust me... it's not that cool. They hire artists to design this stuff. Not kidding. The exterior is made by an industrial designer more so then an actual engineer. I would know, I worked at the company previously.

He’s stated they have a no renders policy so would be weird if they had that then did what you suggest.

A startup founder lying to get juicy government contracts? Say it ain't so!

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#180

Post by greedo »

torginus wrote: post #46
anyfactor wrote: post #40

Is Anduril really that good? I am trying to figure out what is the potential of Anduril is. Their first phase product was in observability towers for border protection, then they made drone-ramming drones and now unmanned fighter jets. I am genuinely curious. I was in the whole retail investor space since early 2010s which saw the EV hype. Workhorse was supposed to supply vans for federal postal vans, Nikola had that…

The problem in the US defense industry is, that since the end of the cold war, defense companies have consolidated into just 5 huge conglomerates and the lack of competition wasn't great for the pace of innovation, affordability or timely development. And the Cold War ended more than three decades ago, about the time we went from piston aircraft to the teen series jets making up the bulk of US inventory even today. I…

Your timeframe is a bit off. Piston powered aircraft were not in use in the US military 30 years ago. 30 years ago was 1994. We had B2 bombers, and the F22 was in full development.

Also Boeing was developing the F-32 (which lost out to the F-35) in the mid 90's, so it's conceivable that an engineer on that program might still be around in some role.

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