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Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

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171–180 of 359 posts

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#171

"Others are questioning whether or not this kind of layout is needed on the web at all — they aren’t sure that well-known websites will use it." Would it instead be possible to exclude anyone with that attitude from a discussion about an open standard? I know this sounds toxic, but I would argue that approaching public design this way is ultimately more toxic wrt the outcome and those affected by it. Or maybe I misun…

Why? Any feature is a liability, so it's good to question whether a feature has to be implemented, and whether it should be in this way and position, or maybe somewhere else.

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#172

"Others are questioning whether or not this kind of layout is needed on the web at all — they aren’t sure that well-known websites will use it." Would it instead be possible to exclude anyone with that attitude from a discussion about an open standard? I know this sounds toxic, but I would argue that approaching public design this way is ultimately more toxic wrt the outcome and those affected by it. Or maybe I misun…

Surely questioning the real world usefulness is not "toxic"?

CSS is already very complicated. Adding more options needs proportionally strong justification.

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#173
post #26
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no prophet and CSS, just like any other language has its quirks. And yeah, generally it is my job to try and tell computers what to do so I like powerful tools that let me do what i want :)

You’re missing the irony in the second paragraph. CSS proponents are ideologically opposed to simply telling the computer how to do what you want.

Well, as far as I at least understand it, the argument is that by using JS for this, you are indeed telling the computer what you want, you're just doing it by telling the computer it by telling it exactly how to do it. In contrast, in CSS, you're telling the computer what you want by… telling it what you want, and letting the browser engine worry about the how.

CSS isn't perfect, but it certainly works nicely for declaring layouts most of the time. It's of course alsp easy to get wrong, but doing all of the layout logic manually doesn't seem like a proper solution.

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#174

> This layout creates uniformly-sized columns, without any rows I find it amusing that they've decided to refer to this as masonry layout. If you actually built a wall like this (as opposed to uniformly-sized rows , without any columns ) it would be a structural engineering disaster.

Thank you. I was confused as well.

A name for the inverse I suppose

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#175
I really don't like how disingenuous, propagandistic and patronising Simmons is being in this article. Ending each section saying "all this will be impossible if not done the way I like", which is absolutely not true. There's not one reason why anything that can be done in "display: grid" couldn't be done with "display: masonry".

But I think, and I hope, that people aren't the fools she's taking us for, and can see how absurd her proposition is.

You could basically clone the grid specification, if you want all those features, and that way both can be developed with what works for each. She says doing that means new grid features might take more time to come to masonry. Really? More time than having to deal with new grid features that won't work at all with your version of masonry integrated in grid? You're still having to deal with two layout systems, even if you want to disguise one of them. Except doing it your way you can't select which system gets the features that work with it.

At the end, instead of two layout systems with two complete sets of features, we'll have one single layout system with a bunch of features that sometimes work and sometimes doesn't, depending on a particular value of a particular declaration that you'll have to know about. And that's why people hate CSS.

Seems lazy and an absolute mess to maintain. And it doesn't make sense at an intuitive level, since masonry works similarly to flexbox, not grid; and it doesn't make sense at a logical level either, since a masonry layout is not a grid.

But I guess this is what we'll end up getting, since apparently anything Jen says goes. Like the ridiculous idea of doing "CSS4", which means nothing, does nothing and is nothing, but we're going with it for some reason anyway.

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#176

> This layout creates uniformly-sized columns, without any rows I find it amusing that they've decided to refer to this as masonry layout. If you actually built a wall like this (as opposed to uniformly-sized rows , without any columns ) it would be a structural engineering disaster.

I think, in structural engineering terms, it refers to old natural stone wall [0] construction methods. Some bridges around me are made like this, and they're over a thousand years old. But I agree that it's not a good adjective because I had the exact same first thought. Both "natural" and "stonewall" would be better, and they're not great names either. [0] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=natural%20stone%20walls&ko=-1&iax…

I associate masonry with the old ages, since this is one of the technologies you research in Civ games and back then I think people did have stones in non-standardized shapes and were just trying to fit things together. I'm not native English speaker, so I first heard this term from the games.

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Accidentally? How can something be intentionally/ unintentionally popular?

Marketing makes something intentionally popular.

Accidentally, seems harder. It kinda smells for people to intentionally make it not popular by actively working against fame, or something like that..

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#178

Umm. Can't you just make each column a subgrid within a larger grid that has one row? It seems like either these constructs are poorly designed, or people don't see how to use them to get what they want.

As I understand it, the hard part of a masonry layout is ensuring that items are laid out with the first items near the top of the screen and the last items near the bottom of the screen. If you just plop your items into columns, the first items will all appear in the first column and the last items will all appear in the last column (left to right), which is not the behavior you want. To my knowledge, the correct be…

If people want to choose where things land they can do that. Therefore I assume we're talking about a scenario where the items are not known in advance - i.e. they come from a database query or similar. Is there no way to SELECT every Nth item when doing a query? Return a count and select where count MOD N = k? Dump those in a column.

This feels like "I want my layout algorithm to be part of the standard." and if you don't think so, see the part where they also want the equivalent of "colspan = 2" for some itmes - possibly with another pattern to define which ones.

Re: Help us invent CSS Grid Level 3, a.k.a. "Masonry" layout

#180

"Others are questioning whether or not this kind of layout is needed on the web at all — they aren’t sure that well-known websites will use it." Would it instead be possible to exclude anyone with that attitude from a discussion about an open standard? I know this sounds toxic, but I would argue that approaching public design this way is ultimately more toxic wrt the outcome and those affected by it. Or maybe I misun…

I heavily agree!

This take is imho dangerously conflates personal taste and motivation with "should a heavily generalized and clearly purposed layout system be complicated with some magic keyuword options to serve your specific intents?", and misappropriates the assumption that people like and use this form layout as a reason to approve the latter.

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