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Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

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Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#171

Post by smallmancontrov »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #158
methodical wrote: post #67

My horror story of Ticketmaster; I recently bought standing-room-only tickets on short notice ( I reached out to support for assistance, and after several days of wasted time and run-around, they finally sent my issue to their engineering team saying they'd get back to me in 5 business days. Keep in mind I said I bought these tickets a week before the event, and they'd already wasted a few days giving me the run-arou…

So you didn’t purchase ticket insurance, you got the tickets you paid for (which they can allow you to sell, at their discretion) and you filed a chargeback… why is that Ticketmaster’s problem? Like it sucks, to be sure, and Ticketmaster is awful, but I’m not sure why that chargeback would be considered legit.

If the tickets were sold as marketable (it sounds like they were) but were not in fact marketable, that's a problem.

If they were sold as marketable pending function(situation) with the implication that function(situation) was not simply "return false" but it turns out that function(situation) was actually "return false," that too is a problem.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#172

Post by dghlsakjg »

harimau777 wrote: post #26
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #18

This is already a solved problem- look at how airline seats are handled.

Can you expand on this? It seems to me that a major difference between flight tickets and concert tickets is that when an airline overbooks they can switch you to a later flight. However, most concerts only perform once in a given city.

I think they are referring to the ability to resell your ticket.

In the airline model, your ticket is tied to your identity. If you don't want to use it, you get a refund instead of selling it.

You can also choose a ticketing agent instead of being forced to use just a single outlet.

In the concert model, you (or a complex entity) buys as many tickets as you can get your hands on from the only seller, and if you don't plan on using the tickets sell them for multiples of what you paid via a shady network of reselling.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#173

Post by TheGRS »

voidwtf wrote: post #64
andjd wrote: post #15

One important thing to know is that the venues/artists often get a kickback of part of the Ticketmaster fees. In other words, the artists, venues, producers, and Ticketmaster are in cahoots to fleece fans for as much money as possible, and Ticketmaster is willing to play the 'bad guy' and take the blame for high prices, and they get to keep a bigger slice of the overall pie than they would in a highly competitive mar…

If I understand correctly Ticketmaster is still the one creating this problem, they demand exclusivity in their contracts which often means the venue has no choice if they want to participate in a large enough market to continue operating. Similarly artists have trouble securing large venues if not participating in their scheme. This is the problem with most 'monopolies', they reach a certain critical mass where they…

Yes, I think they have leveraged their power to keep the situation in their favor and not let a competitor come up. I don't really see a reason we couldn't have 4-5 ticketmaster type companies that still do some of the BS stuff we all hate. The whole thing where Ticketmaster will refuse other artists if your venue doesn't use them is very monopolistic.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#174

Post by kimbernator »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #65
kimbernator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems harsh to blame somebody for simply paying to do something they enjoy when the alternative is just not doing it. Blame the monopoly, not the consumer.

I think we have a duty as consumers not to reinforce anti-consumer behavior, when at all possible.

High prices and high profit margin are not in and of themselves anti-consumer, otherwise every luxury brand would be considered anti-consumer. If people will buy the tickets at the prices marked, why should they lower them? If they push prices high enough that the demand curve starts to dip, they will rationally correct for that.

The only anti-consumer force at play is the monopoly power Live Nation is granted to dictate the price of tickets. There's very little that can be done via boycott when it comes to monopolies.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#175

Post by lolinder »

to11mtm wrote: post #108
op00to wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% chargebacks have changed in the last 2-3 years. I had a vendor send me the wrong part and refuse a refund. Even showing that they sent the wrong part despite ordering the correct part, my chargeback was denied.

I think a lot of banks have gotten weary of chargeback scams and taking the brunt of Amazon's binning practices. Frankly, I'd think it better if they just cut off those bad retailers from the system, which is where the failing is. Alas, monopolies in -that- sector as far as I know prevent a single bank from doing a whole lot, especially when it's a vendor that does so much volume that all the legitimate chargebacks w…

> taking the brunt of Amazon's binning practices

Amazon has a lot of flaws, but I've never once had an issue returning an item for a full refund. I'm sure chargebacks are up in recent years, but I'm not sure it's Amazon that's to blame.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#176

Post by ryandrake »

kxrm wrote: post #144
ryandrake wrote: post #124

I'm as glad as anyone else to see an abusive company get some scrutiny, B U T . . . Everyone is complaining about Ticketmaster but they're still giving them their money, so how are they supposed to respond? They are not being financially incentivized to change their ways. This feels a lot like the video gamer who hates Video Game Company XYZ with the passion of a thousand suns, yet like clockwork buys their video gam…

> Everyone is complaining about Ticketmaster but they're still giving them their money, so how are they supposed to respond? They are not being financially incentivized to change their ways. That's a monopoly. The actual product being a luxury item has no bearing on whether a business practice is damaging to consumers. If I have no other choice but to buy tickets for a show through TM, I can't easily avoid them to ch…

You have a choice to not buy the ticket. This is like hating De Beers yet buying diamonds from them. Monopoly on a non-necessity: anyone can opt out.

If they are breaking the law, the government should throw the book at them and yea they should have done it long ago, but also people should stop giving money to a company they hate, regardless of whether they are a monopoly.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#178

Post by tayo42 »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #147
BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affordable tickets requires a way to combat scalping, which in turn butts up against freedom to resell/transfer tickets after purchase. It's a hard game to win whenever scarcity and economics are involved.

Radiohead does this, banning scalping and limiting prices/supply. It seems to work out pretty well with the fan base. May be due to the band having obsessive and largely left-wing fans

How did they stop scalping?

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#180

Post by TheGRS »

bobthepanda wrote: post #101
calgoo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taylor swift is big enough that she could build a venue in each location if she wanted, so that not an issue. If Taylor and a few other large artists gave the middle finger to ticketmaster and basically created their own ticket system, i promise you that they would have enough pull to basically solve this. However, like you said, thats not in their or their labels interest.

stadiums are multibillion dollar affairs that take years and lots of public financing. SoFi stadium was $5.5B. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_stadium...

Just being devil's advocate since I also don't necessarily agree that TSwift could build a venue in every market, but there are plenty of large-scale events that use open fields and tents and aren't going to cost billions to setup.
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