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A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#171

Post by bsder »

coder543 wrote: post #170
bsder wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tormach metal CNCs are $10K+ and take up a lot of floorspace. A lot of people also cut sheet metal which a CNC tends to be terrible at.

We're talking hobbyist grade stuff here. People mount router bits on $400 CNCs and cut metal all the time. Not $10k: https://youtu.be/w26DHMccicE?t=637 Even though it's cheap, the cuts still look pretty smooth and precise. I can't speak to the safety, as I would hope a $10k CNC would have more safety features.

They cut aluminum. Generally not well.

This part is actually a typical good result in spite of how bad it is: https://youtu.be/w26DHMccicE?t=731

Deflection is bad. Repeatability is poor. etc.

If you put even mild steel on that, that machine will have no hope.

Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#173

Post by coder543 »

bsder wrote: post #171
coder543 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking hobbyist grade stuff here. People mount router bits on $400 CNCs and cut metal all the time. Not $10k: https://youtu.be/w26DHMccicE?t=637 Even though it's cheap, the cuts still look pretty smooth and precise. I can't speak to the safety, as I would hope a $10k CNC would have more safety features.

They cut aluminum . Generally not well. This part is actually a typical good result in spite of how bad it is: https://youtu.be/w26DHMccicE?t=731 Deflection is bad. Repeatability is poor. etc. If you put even mild steel on that, that machine will have no hope.

Okay, but if you’re expecting a magical new diode laser to cut steel any time soon… good luck. That’s what most of this discussion is about. I think starting with a cheap CNC is more likely to work out.

Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#174

Post by bsder »

coder543 wrote: post #173
bsder wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cut aluminum . Generally not well. This part is actually a typical good result in spite of how bad it is: https://youtu.be/w26DHMccicE?t=731 Deflection is bad. Repeatability is poor. etc. If you put even mild steel on that, that machine will have no hope.

Okay, but if you’re expecting a magical new diode laser to cut steel any time soon… good luck. That’s what most of this discussion is about. I think starting with a cheap CNC is more likely to work out.

o_O?

The article literally has a video of the laser actually cutting stainless steel (aka the Devil's chewing gum). The title says "melt steel". That was the practically the whole point of making these kinds of laser.

Video link: https://youtu.be/SFXmFNTviRI

Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#175

Post by coder543 »

bsder wrote: post #174
coder543 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but if you’re expecting a magical new diode laser to cut steel any time soon… good luck. That’s what most of this discussion is about. I think starting with a cheap CNC is more likely to work out.

o_O? The article literally has a video of the laser actually cutting stainless steel (aka the Devil's chewing gum). The title says "melt steel". That was the practically the whole point of making these kinds of laser. Video link: https://youtu.be/SFXmFNTviRI

Yes... but you can't buy it. It's in a research lab. And even once it goes into production, what are the odds that it's going to be affordable? They can probably sell every laser they can produce at a very high price for a long time before supply catches up to demand, even though this is supposed to be easy to manufacture.

I'm just extremely skeptical of a steel-cutting laser mill being cheaper than a $10k CNC any time soon. Hardware is hard. Semiconductors are even harder.

As far as I can see, the article provides no indication of when they even hope to bring this product to market, which is never a good sign.

https://xkcd.com/678/

I would love to be wrong.

And really, that video is unsatisfying. They show a mark on the steel, but -- as far as I saw -- they never even show any steel piece that was cut out by the laser. Maybe the steel melts at the very surface... but it may not be possible to cut through a piece of steel unless it is thinner than a piece of paper? We have so little real world information on this laser.

Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#176

Post by coder543 »

bsder wrote: post #174
coder543 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but if you’re expecting a magical new diode laser to cut steel any time soon… good luck. That’s what most of this discussion is about. I think starting with a cheap CNC is more likely to work out.

o_O? The article literally has a video of the laser actually cutting stainless steel (aka the Devil's chewing gum). The title says "melt steel". That was the practically the whole point of making these kinds of laser. Video link: https://youtu.be/SFXmFNTviRI

Actually, wow... the plot thickens. I missed this in my initial read of the article:

> We even used it to cut through steel. As the bright, beautiful beam carved a disc out of a metal plate 100 μm thick, our entire lab huddled around, watching in amazement.

So... it can cut steel! As long as the steel is 100 μm thick. I think that is literally about the thickness of a piece of paper.

This newfound information does not weaken my skepticism about the hobbyist laser mill that can cut through (useful) pieces of steel coming to a garage near you any time soon, unfortunately.

Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#177

Post by hhtyjgguh »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #159
IshKebab wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 5W laser can't cut steel. You need to be in the kilowatts before you can cut metal (unless it is very very very thin).

You may well be correct, and I spoke out of turn, but it is my understanding that the wavelength of the laser can make a huge difference.

Club show lasers of 5W are pretty common.

Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#178

Post by blincoln »

elzbardico wrote: post #148

It looks to me like we are on the cusp of the laser handguns era

Laser handguns are probably never going to be a thing. How many places are there on a human body where a cauterized hole a few mm across will kill or incapacitate someone? How likely is someone going to be to hit those places accurately with a pistol?

There are some interesting niche uses for laser sniper carbines[1], IMO, like punching holes in a gas tank and igniting the vapour, burning out security camera sensors, cutting power/communications lines, starting fires inside distant buildings by firing through windows, etc., but I think most useful laser weapons will be mounted and computer-controlled so that they can track moving targets long enough to do meaningful damage.

[1] It's not a rifle if the bore is smooth.

Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#179

Post by rohansingh »

MarcScott wrote: post #157
xavieralexandre wrote: post #2

The article rightly points out the industrial impact of more powerful and compact lasers but I cannot wait for those PCSELs to reach the small workshop market. Having a cheap laser able to cut metal at home / small shops would be so useful (And sneakily dangerous as lasers are).

These lasers mean that the watches that Q gave to James Bond will finally become a reality. LLMs and self-driving cars mean that KITT from Knight Rider will finally become a reality. All I need is for Webb to discover a planet a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away, and my childhood fictions will have been realised.

Wouldn't you still need to provide an amount of power to the laser that's not currently feasible for a watch?

Re: A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel

#180

Post by skykooler »

mft_ wrote: post #24
coder543 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on why you think this would be so great for home workshops? How do you envision using the laser? Handheld, mounted, or on a CNC?

CNC would be an obvious implementation. At the moment, there are expensive-but-affordable home CNC laser cutters, typically for a small number of thousand EUR/USD. The more powerful ones can do a very neat job cutting (up to a few mm of) plywood. There are also CNC plasma cutters, which do a good but slightly rough job of cutting sheet metal, and are relatuvely large and complex beasts. I guess a highly-powerful lase…

To my knowledge, you can't really use a laser cutter interchangeably on different materials. Metal cutting is done with fiber lasers, which have very small beam sizes and have a wavelength of about 1 micrometer. However, you can't use them reliably to cut wood, because they penetrate much deeper into it and can burn material below the surface before the surface has vaporized. It also is highly variable in how much gets absorbed, so engraving does not produce consistent results either.

On the other hand, wood cutting is done with CO2 lasers which have a significantly longer wavelength of around 10 micrometers. This wavelength is absorbed very well by wood and most plastics, but is mostly reflected by metals. Additionally, the longer wavelength means that it cannot be focused to as small of a point, which reduces the maximum power.

Chip lasers would still be bound to the same wavelength limitations, so you couldn't cut both materials with the same laser. What you could do, though, is have a machine with two lasers - especially if they are very compact - and select which one to use depending on what material needs to be cut.

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